2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion

[Cap]

Quick question. Kobe came out of high school at 18. Did he get a full 3 seasons to do what Devin is about to do in 2? He has an August birthday which would indicate he turned 18 right before his first season giving him 3 full seasons.

If so it's really moot to me. Devin was robbed of an entire year. It should be a seasons comparison not an age one.

It's an apples-to-oranges comparison for a number of reasons. Devin is the #1 option on a crappy team. Kobe had to share the ball with Shaq, Van Exel, and Eddie Jones or Glen Rice.

[carey]

It's an apples-to-oranges comparison for a number of reasons. Devin is the #1 option on a crappy team. Kobe had to share the ball with Shaq, Van Exel, and Eddie Jones or Glen Rice.

Fair point.

[O_Gardino]

Kobe barely scored at all as an 18yr old, and I'm sure Book wouldn't have even touched the ball. Kobe scored a bit more than Book at 19, and a bit less at 20, but the #s are very comparable. In terms of total points, remember that the season Kobe was 20 was the 50 game season. Kobe was a much better player overall at that age, despite the similarities in terms of scoring totals.

[In2ition]

Kobe barely scored at all as an 18yr old, and I'm sure Book wouldn't have even touched the ball. Kobe scored a bit more than Book at 19, and a bit less at 20, but the #s are very comparable. In terms of total points, remember that the season Kobe was 20 was the 50 game season. Kobe was a much better player overall at that age, despite the similarities in terms of scoring totals.

True, IIRC Kobe was a lock down defender at 20 yrs old. We like to compare Devin to Kobe, because it gives us hope for the future. And although there are some similarities, Booker has a ways to go to be at Kobe's level as an all-around player. I'm just enjoiying the journey and process right now. That goes for all the young guys.

[Flagrant Fowl]

The thing that separated Kobe was his relentless in his preparation and as a competitor. That part of his "game" wasn't really talked about until the mid-point of his career, around the time of his drama with Shaq.

Clearly Booker plays with an on-court tenacity that can be compared to Kobe, but we'll have to wait and see if he has the preparation habits, and most importantly, the ability to translate off-court preparation into on-court performance. I think we can already determine that Booker will never be as good of an athlete as Kobe, so there are some things that Booker will never be able to match.

[Mori Chu]

People forget that young Kobe was a real high flier. He had some insane dunks and leaps in his first few years.

[pickle]

Say, what is the record for the most read thread in this board? This current one sits at 25k and change...

[1tinsoldier]

Lakers beat Spurs!
unfortunately, our last 2 games are against teams that should also be in tank mode

[Cap]

Say, what is the record for the most read thread in this board? This current one sits at 25k and change...

http://www.phx-suns.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1033 at almost 75k. It is also the longest thread.

[pickle]

Damn. I remember catching up to that thread, working through 3-4 pages everyday...

[In2ition]

If the Suns get in the top 2 after the lottery and take a pg, who would you hope gets into the 3rd position to hopefully be able to make a trade with to get the 3rd pick too? New York, New Orleans, Orlando, or someone else? You could package create a package around Bledsoe and Warren? Then roll out next year with Fultz/Ball & Jackson with Booker, Chriss, and Chandler This would allow Ulis, Jones Jr. and Bender as main backups. Perhaps they could even trade away Knight and get something for him and take Jordan Bell early in the 2nd round.

Fultz/Ball - Ulis
Booker - Jok
Jackson - Jones Jr.
Chriss - Bender - Dudley
Chandler - Williams - Bell

Or if the Suns fall to the 3rd position, they could just take Jackson and hope that Jones Jr. could move to sg with a great off-season of work on his shot. They keep Bledsoe and Ulis is his backup and roll that way into the off-season.

[Split T]

Knicks are the team I could see making an offer for Bledsoe. Would Bled/Warren get you the 3rd pick? Would a Bled/Lee/Warren/Melo/Porzingis team compete in the east?

[Wormwood]

I ran Chad Ford's draft simulator 100 times. Results as follows:

Lonzo Ball: 43%

Jayson Tatum: 33%

Josh Jackson: 24%

All Others: 0%

Of these, I LOVE Ball. He's going to be VERY special. Like, Steve Nash or Russell Westbrook special. If Ball wasn't available, but Fultz was, he'd be next on my board and I'd be pretty happy with it. Then Josh Jackson as a "Meh... average to slightly below average starter". Tatum rates a "trade the pick for an something unprotected years down the road." He projects about the same or worse than T.J Warren (Great, another SF who can't hit the 3. Yay. Just what we totally don't need.)

[In2ition]

You might need to move Melo, as he probably wants out and they may need cap relief. Not sure if it competes, so it might take a pick thrown in. The thing is that Dolan believes every year that they are going to turn it around with one or two moves and be able to compete. This would be a great trade for them, as both Bled and Warren can score 20+ per game in this league.

[1tinsoldier]

considering how ignorant and offensive his father's remarks are, has Ball said anything to distance himself from those remarks? In addition to his talent, the Suns would be drafting his marketability.

[Split T]

I ran Chad Ford's draft simulator 100 times. Results as follows:

Lonzo Ball: 43%

Jayson Tatum: 33%

Josh Jackson: 24%

All Others: 0%

Of these, I LOVE Ball. He's going to be VERY special. Like, Steve Nash or Russell Westbrook special. If Ball wasn't available, but Fultz was, he'd be next on my board and I'd be pretty happy with it. Then Josh Jackson as a "Meh... average to slightly below average starter". Tatum rates a "trade the pick for an something unprotected years down the road." He projects about the same or worse than T.J Warren (Great, another SF who can't hit the 3. Yay. Just what we totally don't need.)

Decided to do 100 myself:

Jayson Tatum 41%

Lonzo Ball 34%

Josh Jackson 25%

I'd prefer them in reverse order, Jackson, Ball, then Tatum.

I think Josh Jackson can be an Andre Iguodala like player, not someone you want as your #1 option, but he will do just about everything well.

I don't know about Ball, he's very intriguing and has a chance to be special, but I have concerns. You'd have to build the team around his style, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you better hope he pans out. I think his shooting form will limit him as a scorer. He's a better shooter than Rondo, but I think his form will handicap him in a similar fashion.

Tatum I agree with you on. I think he's a better prospect than Warren, but I'm not sure he adds much.

Fultz is still my number one. He's going to be special. Somewhere between Damian Lillard/Brandon Roy special and Dwyane Wade/James Harden special.

[Wormwood]

Decided to do 100 myself:

Jayson Tatum 41%

Lonzo Ball 34%

Josh Jackson 25%

I'd prefer them in reverse order, Jackson, Ball, then Tatum.

I think Josh Jackson can be an Andre Iguodala like player, not someone you want as your #1 option, but he will do just about everything well.

I don't know about Ball, he's very intriguing and has a chance to be special, but I have concerns. You'd have to build the team around his style, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you better hope he pans out. I think his shooting form will limit him as a scorer. He's a better shooter than Rondo, but I think his form will handicap him in a similar fashion.

Tatum I agree with you on. I think he's a better prospect than Warren, but I'm not sure he adds much.

Fultz is still my number one. He's going to be special. Somewhere between Damian Lillard/Brandon Roy special and Dwyane Wade/James Harden special.

If the Suns are choosing between Fultz and Ball, they're getting a really good player either way and I'm happy. I just think Ball's ceiling is significantly higher than Fultz's. He does some things with his body that remind me a little of Nash in terms of balance and in controlling his speed. I think Jackson is more athlete than basketball player, which ends up looking a lot like Maquese Chriss (fun to watch, but not a lot of winning). Ceiling is Shawn Marion. Floor is Derrick Jones Jr.

[Mori Chu]

Of these, I LOVE Ball. He's going to be VERY special. Like, Steve Nash or Russell Westbrook special. If Ball wasn't available, but Fultz was, he'd be next on my board and I'd be pretty happy with it. Then Josh Jackson as a "Meh... average to slightly below average starter". Tatum rates a "trade the pick for an something unprotected years down the road." He projects about the same or worse than T.J Warren (Great, another SF who can't hit the 3. Yay. Just what we totally don't need.)

I am super excited about Ball, too. I just really want to see us get that #1 or #2 pick so that we are sure to get one of Ball or Fultz. Though I must confess that I am not nearly as excited about Fultz as I am about Ball. I am famously not great at projecting college basketball players' chances of success in the NBA, but Ball just feels like a once in a blue moon type of player to me, while Fultz feels like just swapping Bledsoe for a younger similar type of guard. Maybe I'm underselling how much talent and impact Fultz can have, but in the games and highlights I watched of him, I just didn't see as much that got me excited.

[O_Gardino]

Ball excites me more than Fultz as well. But when I think about them objectively, Fultz seems like the better prospect. Bottom line, you win in the NBA by having a guy who is strong, quick, and can really score, and letting that guy create mismatches that lead to good shots or fouls. Your passing and teamwork needs to be good enough, but the physical mismatch needs to be great.

[Split T]

Decided to do 100 myself:

Jayson Tatum 41%

Lonzo Ball 34%

Josh Jackson 25%

I'd prefer them in reverse order, Jackson, Ball, then Tatum.

I think Josh Jackson can be an Andre Iguodala like player, not someone you want as your #1 option, but he will do just about everything well.

I don't know about Ball, he's very intriguing and has a chance to be special, but I have concerns. You'd have to build the team around his style, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you better hope he pans out. I think his shooting form will limit him as a scorer. He's a better shooter than Rondo, but I think his form will handicap him in a similar fashion.

Tatum I agree with you on. I think he's a better prospect than Warren, but I'm not sure he adds much.

Fultz is still my number one. He's going to be special. Somewhere between Damian Lillard/Brandon Roy special and Dwyane Wade/James Harden special.

If the Suns are choosing between Fultz and Ball, they're getting a really good player either way and I'm happy. I just think Ball's ceiling is significantly higher than Fultz's. He does some things with his body that remind me a little of Nash in terms of balance and in controlling his speed. I think Jackson is more athlete than basketball player, which ends up looking a lot like Maquese Chriss (fun to watch, but not a lot of winning). Ceiling is Shawn Marion. Floor is Derrick Jones Jr.

I agree with the bolded statement. I would not be disappointed with Ball.

I like Jackson a lot more than you though. He's got some short comings, I worry about him creating his own shot and shooting in the NBA a bit, he's not totally unlike Marion in that regard, but like Marion, he moves well without the ball and is a great finisher and defender. I think Marion was a better athlete, but Jackson has better dribbling and passing skills.