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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:23 pm
by Indy
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:19 pm
Ayton has just scratched the surface to what he will become. Don’t sell low! Even though I get very frustrated with his non-aggressive play, I still have high hopes for him.
He can still end up being an all-star player, but I don't have high hopes for his aggressive play.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:25 pm
by Superbone
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:23 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:19 pm
Ayton has just scratched the surface to what he will become. Don’t sell low! Even though I get very frustrated with his non-aggressive play, I still have high hopes for him.
He can still end up being an all-star player, but I don't have high hopes for his aggressive play.
I don’t either but I could see him adding
some aggression and getting to the FT line more. But he’ll never be that #BULLYSZN guy he professes to be.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:05 pm
by Indy
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:25 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:23 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:19 pm
Ayton has just scratched the surface to what he will become. Don’t sell low! Even though I get very frustrated with his non-aggressive play, I still have high hopes for him.
He can still end up being an all-star player, but I don't have high hopes for his aggressive play.
I don’t either but I could see him adding
some aggression and getting to the FT line more. But he’ll never be that #BULLYSZN guy he professes to be.
Let's hope.
Of the 54 guys 6-10 and over that played 500 minutes this year, he was:
44/53 in Minutes/FTA--he playes 13:53 for every FTA he took this year. (this amazes me)
50/54 in FGA/FTA--he takes 6.4 FGAs for every FTA he gets. (if Booker was at this rate, he would've taken over 300 less FTA this season!)
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:08 pm
by 3rdside
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:25 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:23 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:19 pm
Ayton has just scratched the surface to what he will become. Don’t sell low! Even though I get very frustrated with his non-aggressive play, I still have high hopes for him.
He can still end up being an all-star player, but I don't have high hopes for his aggressive play.
I don’t either but I could see him adding
some aggression and getting to the FT line more. But he’ll never be that #BULLYSZN guy he professes to be.
Looking at the positives even though I was turned off by his passivity - I was impressed with his mid-range game in the bubble .. It's probably fair to say it's easier to the learn the aggressive stuff than the finesse stuff, in which case the "big men take longer to develop" rule still applies.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:11 pm
by Indy
3rdside wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:08 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:25 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:23 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:19 pm
Ayton has just scratched the surface to what he will become. Don’t sell low! Even though I get very frustrated with his non-aggressive play, I still have high hopes for him.
He can still end up being an all-star player, but I don't have high hopes for his aggressive play.
I don’t either but I could see him adding
some aggression and getting to the FT line more. But he’ll never be that #BULLYSZN guy he professes to be.
Looking at the positives even though I was turned off by his passivity - I was impressed with his mid-range game in the bubble .. It's probably fair to say it's easier to the learn the aggressive stuff than the finesse stuff, in which case the "big men take longer to develop" rule still applies.
I don't think you learn how to be aggressive on the court. You either have it (Amare) or you don't (Boris, Len, Dragan, etc.).
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:29 pm
by 3rdside
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:44 am
3rdside wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:17 pm
Fyi, I'm in hardcore Covid quarantine in Australia not even allowed to leave my hotel room. Bored out of my mind and jet lagged like you wouldn't believe coming from UK so sleeping all sorts of weird hours. Is the reason I'm in here quite a lot atm and will likely be for four more days yet.
Have to say it feels weird as hell being a prisoner and its not recommended (but I have a nice hotel room - a suite actually - at government expense, so could be worse .. and the NBA is on free to air TV which is great)
That sounds pretty awful. Hope you're finding ways to keep your sanity. Can you at least watch the NBA games each day? Basically I watch the games and try to keep my kids from cracking their heads open all day, and then try to get some work done in between; that's my routine. It's rough and repetitive; I hope COVID gets better some day soon.
Cheers bro - it's harder than it seems but mainly because of the jet lag messing with you as there's no outside influence to interrupt your circadian rhythms, so you feel in a weird daze most the time. I lay down at 4pm for an afternoon snooze a couple days back (on day 9 of quarantine) and came to at 1am .. wtf do you do then? Push ups, protein bars, twitter and phx-suns.net apparently ...
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:39 pm
by 3rdside
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:11 pm
3rdside wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:08 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:25 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:23 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:19 pm
Ayton has just scratched the surface to what he will become. Don’t sell low! Even though I get very frustrated with his non-aggressive play, I still have high hopes for him.
He can still end up being an all-star player, but I don't have high hopes for his aggressive play.
I don’t either but I could see him adding
some aggression and getting to the FT line more. But he’ll never be that #BULLYSZN guy he professes to be.
Looking at the positives even though I was turned off by his passivity - I was impressed with his mid-range game in the bubble .. It's probably fair to say it's easier to the learn the aggressive stuff than the finesse stuff, in which case the "big men take longer to develop" rule still applies.
I don't think you learn how to be aggressive on the court. You either have it (Amare) or you don't (Boris, Len, Dragan, etc.).
Fair call .. his 2.3 FT's a game, down from 2.7 the year before, doesn't inspire much confidence otherwise.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:03 pm
by The Bobster
One of these things is not like the others.....
Diaw - 1064 games, .493 FG%, 4.4 reb, 8.6 pts
Len - 467 games, .495 FG%, 6.3 reb, pts
Bender - 187 games, .399 FG%, 3.9 reb, 5.4 pts
Ayton - 109 games, .570 FG%, 10.7 reb, 17.0 pts
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:12 pm
by 3rdside
I'm in no rush to move on ..
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:25 pm
by The Bobster
22 years old
35 games of college experience
109 games of NBA experience
have some patience people
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:30 pm
by 3rdside
One (a couple?) of his defensive plays at the end of a bubble game was huge, the one where it was backed up buy a dunk at the other end ... there's plenty of signs.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:36 pm
by The Bobster
He's made a big jump defensively, and is skilled enough to make me optimistic he can do the same offensively.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:35 pm
by Drewsprocket
Let’s stop acting like Ayton is Eddy Curry or Jahlil Okafor. He can defend and rebound. But he’s learning the game still. They threw some game plans at him and he disappeared at times on offense. He’s caught between being a second chance bucket getter and a pick and pop/roll Center at the top of the key. It’s gonna take time for the team to figure out his spots.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:35 am
by Split T
For the record I’m not advocating for moving on from Ayton or calling him Jahlil Okafor. I suggested he might not be a great fit in a hypothetical world where we have Ben Simmons. Considering he’s not a great fit with Embiid, I don’t think that it’s a crazy thing to say. Carry on.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:59 pm
by 3rdside
It's been said on the draft thread but NOP trading Ball is also being talked about on Twitter:
Lonzo Ball for our #10 might work for both sides.
NO would have #13 and #10 so could trade up if they have someone they like, Rubio better than anyone to mentor Ball.
Ball's shooting a concern tho it is moving in the right direction (
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... llo01.html).
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:05 pm
by 3rdside
Just to piece together what I've said across a few different threads regarding this Ball trade:
- If Haliburton, Hayes or Toppin are available I wouldn't do it
- If those three are all gone but Vassell is available then I lean Vassell (Ball's got $11m owed this coming season only, #10 costs $3.7m).
- If those four are all gone but Okoro is available I'd go for Ball
- If they're all gone then I'd definitely go for Ball
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:51 am
by BookTheGoat
INFORMER wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:57 pm
Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:25 pm
But Philly ain’t giving him up for Rubio + Oubre + pick. It’s a good deal for us. It wont make them much better.
I wonder what they could get for Simmons.
Would GS move Wiggins + lotto pick?
Would Chicago give up Zach Lavine?
Would Portland offer CJ McCollum?
I don't see a lot of great scenarios out there for Philly.
All 3 of those teams would jump on that immediately.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:10 am
by BookTheGoat
The Bobster wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:03 pm
One of these things is not like the others.....
Diaw - 1064 games, .493 FG%, 4.4 reb, 8.6 pts
Len - 467 games, .495 FG%, 6.3 reb, pts
Bender - 187 games, .399 FG%, 3.9 reb, 5.4 pts
Ayton - 109 games, .570 FG%, 10.7 reb, 17.0 pts
Agreed. He’s better than all of them. But I don’t think Indy was saying otherwise.
Diaw - FTr .191, FTA 1.2
Len - FTr .396(!), FTA 2.4
Bender - FTr .139, FTA 0.7
Ayton - FTr .193, FTA 2.4
some examples he should strive for:
Anthony Davis FTr .412, FTA 7.1
Embiid - FTr .515, FTA 8.6
Amar’e - FTr .495, FTA 6.4 (weighed down by end of career)
Lot of people like to compare him The Admiral.
FTr .577, FTA 8.3
I think DA can improve his FT numbers but not sure he’s ever going to be aggressive enough to reach those numbers consistently. Hopefully he does though because it’d take his offensive game to the next level.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:52 am
by O_Gardino
BookTheGoat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:10 am
The Bobster wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:03 pm
One of these things is not like the others.....
Diaw - 1064 games, .493 FG%, 4.4 reb, 8.6 pts
Len - 467 games, .495 FG%, 6.3 reb, pts
Bender - 187 games, .399 FG%, 3.9 reb, 5.4 pts
Ayton - 109 games, .570 FG%, 10.7 reb, 17.0 pts
Agreed. He’s better than all of them. But I don’t think Indy was saying otherwise.
Diaw - FTr .191, FTA 1.2
Len - FTr .396(!), FTA 2.4
Bender - FTr .139, FTA 0.7
Ayton - FTr .193, FTA 2.4
some examples he should strive for:
Anthony Davis FTr .412, FTA 7.1
Embiid - FTr .515, FTA 8.6
Amar’e - FTr .495, FTA 6.4 (weighed down by end of career)
Lot of people like to compare him The Admiral.
FTr .577, FTA 8.3
I think DA can improve his FT numbers but not sure he’s ever going to be aggressive enough to reach those numbers consistently. Hopefully he does though because it’d take his offensive game to the next level.
Nice breakdown.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:03 pm
by In2ition
3rdside wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:05 pm
Just to piece together what I've said across a few different threads regarding this Ball trade:
- If Haliburton, Hayes or Toppin are available I wouldn't do it
- If those three are all gone but Vassell is available then I lean Vassell (Ball's got $11m owed this coming season only, #10 costs $3.7m).
-
If those four are all gone but Okoro is available I'd go for Ball
- If they're all gone then I'd definitely go for Ball
Idk, Okoro is an archetype of a defensive player with strength & athleticism to bother players like Harden, Brown & Mitchell. Plus he's a ball mover and a good passer.