Page 34 of 77
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:43 am
by AmareIsGod
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:36 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:30 am
You guys have to stop thinking we're going to operate like low level organizations like OKC.
We're a premier market now that players want to come to. We're going to be operating like the other big markets that can attract high level free agents. Draft picks and long term rebuilds are not going to be how we win.
When KD and Beal and Book are done, we'll snatch the next best FA because of the culture in the organization and lifestyle that Ish has promoted
I hope you’re right but when I look at the lakers, they’re not doing so hot running that same playbook and would like to think LA is more fav destination than here (personally hate LA and wouldn’t trade the valley for it).
Not these days. LA is a lot like Cheech and Chong.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:45 am
by In2ition
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:30 am
You guys have to stop thinking we're going to operate like low level organizations like OKC.
We're a premier market now that players want to come to. We're going to be operating like the other big markets that can attract high level free agents. Draft picks and long term rebuilds are not going to be how we win.
When KD and Beal and Book are done, we'll snatch the next best FA because of the culture in the organization and lifestyle that Ish has promoted
I understand your thought process here, but the franchise isn't really winning with it's current setup. They need to flip the script, unfortunately.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:50 am
by specialsauce
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:36 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:30 am
You guys have to stop thinking we're going to operate like low level organizations like OKC.
We're a premier market now that players want to come to. We're going to be operating like the other big markets that can attract high level free agents. Draft picks and long term rebuilds are not going to be how we win.
When KD and Beal and Book are done, we'll snatch the next best FA because of the culture in the organization and lifestyle that Ish has promoted
I hope you’re right but when I look at the lakers, they’re not doing so hot running that same playbook and would like to think LA is more fav destination than here (personally hate LA and wouldn’t trade the valley for it).
Winning at least 1 championship every 10 years is EXHAUSTING
We have a top notch practice facility in the most bougie part of town with amazing weather during the NBA season in a city with a shit ton of stuff to do and now an owner that puts all the money on the players experience. It's going to continue to be a players destination. Hearing our name involved in every big target the last few years just shows what kind of market Ishbia has created. It's going to continue.
Y'all are busting over OKC now but they have sucked ass for the entirety of their existence except for a short stretch with KD to get to this point. No thank you.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:54 am
by Wally_West
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:28 am
I think it gets done too…though I do expect it’s gonna be more than just 2031…I don’t think we’ll move Dunn, but I can see Oso…or maybe something like Royce, Grayson, or Tyus elsewhere for more picks to include.
It’ll be Tyus. Just makes too much sense. Tyus minutes keep going down, we play better with the ball in Book’s hands and it’s hard playing Tyus at the end of games because he gets hunted.
Monte has shown he’s a good back up pg, not a total zero on defense either. I’d be very surprised if Tyus is here past the deadline.
I feel like most of post are picking on Tyus and I dont mean too haha. If we had his bird rights, id absolutely not even think about trading him, I would pay anything he wanted and keep him but that’s not the case, so…
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:56 am
by Split T
Ya I think Tyus makes the most sense too. He might even be pretty useful in Miami
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:58 am
by TOO
In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:45 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:30 am
You guys have to stop thinking we're going to operate like low level organizations like OKC.
We're a premier market now that players want to come to. We're going to be operating like the other big markets that can attract high level free agents. Draft picks and long term rebuilds are not going to be how we win.
When KD and Beal and Book are done, we'll snatch the next best FA because of the culture in the organization and lifestyle that Ish has promoted
I understand your thought process here, but the franchise isn't really winning with it's current setup. They need to flip the script, unfortunately.
It could be worse, the Sixers have tried or both ways and flamed out miserably.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:59 am
by Superbone
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:43 am
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:36 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:30 am
You guys have to stop thinking we're going to operate like low level organizations like OKC.
We're a premier market now that players want to come to. We're going to be operating like the other big markets that can attract high level free agents. Draft picks and long term rebuilds are not going to be how we win.
When KD and Beal and Book are done, we'll snatch the next best FA because of the culture in the organization and lifestyle that Ish has promoted
I hope you’re right but when I look at the lakers, they’re not doing so hot running that same playbook and would like to think LA is more fav destination than here (personally hate LA and wouldn’t trade the valley for it).
Not these days. LA is a lot like Cheech and Chong.
Up in Smoke?
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:17 am
by Mori Chu
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:30 am
You guys have to stop thinking we're going to operate like low level organizations like OKC.
We're a premier market now that players want to come to. We're going to be operating like the other big markets that can attract high level free agents. Draft picks and long term rebuilds are not going to be how we win.
When KD and Beal and Book are done, we'll snatch the next best FA because of the culture in the organization and lifestyle that Ish has promoted
So we are a "premier market" and the best FAs will come here because of the "culture" and "lifestyle." Okay. I'm AZ raised and I love me some Arizona, but a lot of NBA players don't consider Phoenix a premier city or market. It's no more of a premier market than, say, Detroit or Chicago or Sacramento or Brooklyn. Players don't flock to those cities, either.
And exactly what "culture" and "lifestyle" are we promoting? Our team sucks and plays every night like they don't give a shit. We are unimpressive and underachieving, losing more than half our games despite one of the most expensive rosters in pro sports. IMO the only appealing culture or lifestyle here that a player might be allured by is the fact that they can sucker us into paying them a big contract despite the cap and luxury tax. So, I guess if you want us to attract mercenaries, great. But also there are always going to be other teams with cap space. We can't just outspend everybody forever. And Ishbia, despite being a wealthy guy, will eventually grow tired of paying $400m+ a year to suck. The 2nd-apron days are not going to last forever.
Overall if we don't have any picks, we don't have a future and we don't have a way to get better when our current roster ages out or leaves. We're setting ourselves up to be screwed in the future. Even the mighty Lakers keep SOME of their picks around so they have them to use. This despite the "premier market" and "culture" they have built in LA.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:25 am
by specialsauce
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:17 am
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:30 am
You guys have to stop thinking we're going to operate like low level organizations like OKC.
We're a premier market now that players want to come to. We're going to be operating like the other big markets that can attract high level free agents. Draft picks and long term rebuilds are not going to be how we win.
When KD and Beal and Book are done, we'll snatch the next best FA because of the culture in the organization and lifestyle that Ish has promoted
So we are a "premier market" and the best FAs will come here because of the "culture" and "lifestyle." Okay. I'm AZ raised and I love me some Arizona, but a lot of NBA players don't consider Phoenix a premier city or market. It's no more of a premier market than, say, Detroit or Chicago or Sacramento or Brooklyn. Players don't flock to those cities, either.
And exactly what "culture" and "lifestyle" are we promoting? Our team sucks and plays every night like they don't give a shit. We are unimpressive and underachieving, losing more than half our games despite one of the most expensive rosters in pro sports. IMO the only appealing culture or lifestyle here that a player might be allured by is the fact that they can sucker us into paying them a big contract despite the cap and luxury tax. So, I guess if you want us to attract mercenaries, great. But also there are always going to be other teams with cap space. We can't just outspend everybody forever. And Ishbia, despite being a wealthy guy, will eventually grow tired of paying $400m+ a year to suck. The 2nd-apron days are not going to last forever.
Overall if we don't have any picks, we don't have a future and we don't have a way to get better when our current roster ages out or leaves. We're setting ourselves up to be screwed in the future. Even the mighty Lakers keep SOME of their picks around so they have them to use. This despite the "premier market" and "culture" they have built in LA.
You're thinking about all of it as a fan, not as an employee.
Your boss upgraded essentially every aspect of the franchise. He hired the top food vendor as the companies new vendor. He is catering to their every day lives as employees. He built a new state of the art practice facility for the Mercury. We have a lower state income tax than say CA or NY. This stuff may not matter to you, but it shows what he is doing to attract employees and make their work experience more enjoyable. Contrary to what fans may think, the players care more than just about winning, just like you do at your job.
They see a good climate, lower taxes, lots of night life, high end restaurants and hotels coming in from all around the world and popping up left and right (nobu , din tai fung, global ambassador with investor Devin Booker ) this stuff matters. There's a reason so many athletes live here in the offseason. Sarver just mishandled it so badly he had it all available to him, he was just so short sighted he wasn't willing to spend money short term to make money long term.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:25 am
by SunsSince92
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:56 am
Ya I think Tyus makes the most sense too. He might even be pretty useful in Miami
Agreed - I think it makes the most sense for them and us. Tyus has been disappointing, perhaps because he was over hyped when we acquired him or perhaps due to the system (whatever it is) that he's playing in. He just hasn't been the difference maker we'd hoped for and won't be here next season anyway. We may as well cut our losses and move him for a piece that could help.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:25 am
by Split T
Did you really lump Sacramento and Detroit in with Phoenix? Not even remotely comparable. Just look at the last few years…CP3 wanted to come here, KD wanted to come here, Beal wanted to come here, Butler wants to come here…There’s definitely a lot of evidence to support Phoenix being a destination.
That doesn’t mean we are set and don’t have to worry about the draft, but having players want to come here is clearly a good thing. Do you really want us to do what Brooklyn is doing? What Utah is doing? Washington? Charlotte? I have no interest in that. I’d blow it up, but Brooklyn has zero young talent on that roster…they are in for a very long rebuild. All those teams could just as easily become the Kings when they missed the playoffs for 15 years.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:28 am
by specialsauce
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:25 am
Did you really lump Sacramento and Detroit in with Phoenix? Not even remotely comparable. Just look at the last few years…CP3 wanted to come here, KD wanted to come here, Beal wanted to come here, Butler wants to come here…There’s definitely a lot of evidence to support Phoenix being a destination.
That doesn’t mean we are set and don’t have to worry about the draft, but having players want to come here is clearly a good thing. Do you really want us to do what Brooklyn is doing? What Utah is doing? Washington? Charlotte? I have no interest in that. I’d blow it up, but Brooklyn has zero young talent on that roster…they are in for a very long rebuild. All those teams could just as easily become the Kings when they missed the playoffs for 15 years.
Uh yeah. If you're comparing Paradise Valley, Biltmore, Arcadia, Scottsdale to Sacramento and Detroit..... you're confused .
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:28 am
by Split T
SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:25 am
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:56 am
Ya I think Tyus makes the most sense too. He might even be pretty useful in Miami
Agreed - I think it makes the most sense for them and us. Tyus has been disappointing, perhaps because he was over hyped when we acquired him or perhaps due to the system (whatever it is) that he's playing in. He just hasn't been the difference maker we'd hoped for and won't be here next season anyway. We may as well cut our losses and move him for a piece that could help.
Tyus is an elite backup pg and a low-end starting pg…we got excited because he had no business taking a minimum. He’s still great value, but he’s also a below average starting pg.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:31 am
by Kryptonic
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:28 am
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:25 am
Did you really lump Sacramento and Detroit in with Phoenix? Not even remotely comparable. Just look at the last few years…CP3 wanted to come here, KD wanted to come here, Beal wanted to come here, Butler wants to come here…There’s definitely a lot of evidence to support Phoenix being a destination.
That doesn’t mean we are set and don’t have to worry about the draft, but having players want to come here is clearly a good thing. Do you really want us to do what Brooklyn is doing? What Utah is doing? Washington? Charlotte? I have no interest in that. I’d blow it up, but Brooklyn has zero young talent on that roster…they are in for a very long rebuild. All those teams could just as easily become the Kings when they missed the playoffs for 15 years.
Uh yeah. If you're comparing Paradise Valley, Biltmore, Arcadia, Scottsdale to Sacramento and Detroit..... you're confused .
Someone’s been smoking that bay town herb.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:37 am
by ShelC
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:25 am
Did you really lump Sacramento and Detroit in with Phoenix? Not even remotely comparable. Just look at the last few years…CP3 wanted to come here, KD wanted to come here, Beal wanted to come here, Butler wants to come here…There’s definitely a lot of evidence to support Phoenix being a destination.
That doesn’t mean we are set and don’t have to worry about the draft, but having players want to come here is clearly a good thing. Do you really want us to do what Brooklyn is doing? What Utah is doing? Washington? Charlotte? I have no interest in that. I’d blow it up, but Brooklyn has zero young talent on that roster…they are in for a very long rebuild. All those teams could just as easily become the Kings when they missed the playoffs for 15 years.
Those guys wanted to come here because of the basketball culture that was in place and Book was the guy they wanted to play with. Yea Phoenix is a nice destination with great weather but we weren't getting a lot of FA meetings in the mid 2010s. LMA turned us down to sign with the Spurs and Bledsoe specifically asked out.
And we're pretty much on the same track as Brooklyn trying the superteam thing that isn't working out except we won't have their arsenal of picks if we keep going with KD and Butler.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:44 am
by Split T
I don’t think comparing it to the Sarver era team is fair either…maybe it doesn’t last, but we suck right now and Butler still wants to come. Ishbia did change a lot from the Sarver days.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:53 am
by ShelC
Butler wants to come for the money.
And Sarver seemed to have figured it out right before he was forced to sell. Didn't stop CP or KD from wanting to come here. Now Ishbia is making the same mistakes Sarver made early on in his tenure mortgaging the future.
Dolan had NY and all the money in the world and couldn't get FAs to meet with the Knicks because the org was trash. Guys want to go where they think they can win.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:59 am
by Ring_Wanted
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 9:30 am
You guys have to stop thinking we're going to operate like low level organizations like OKC.
We're a premier market now that players want to come to. We're going to be operating like the other big markets that can attract high level free agents. Draft picks and long term rebuilds are not going to be how we win.
When KD and Beal and Book are done, we'll snatch the next best FA because of the culture in the organization and lifestyle that Ish has promoted
I so want to believe this.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:00 am
by ShelC
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:03 am
by Split T
ShelC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 10:53 am
Butler wants to come for the money.
And Sarver seemed to have figured it out right before he was forced to sell. Didn't stop CP or KD from wanting to come here. Now Ishbia is making the same mistakes Sarver made early on in his tenure mortgaging the future.
Dolan had NY and all the money in the world and couldn't get FAs to meet with the Knicks because the org was trash. Guys want to go where they think they can win.
Fair on CP and KD…
Did Sarver mortgage the future? He just made awful cost saving moves that killed our present.
Some guys go where they can win, but they also go where they get paid and where they want to play. I think facilities, weather, teammates…all that stuff matters a lot. The suns can offer quite a bit.
I don’t think our organization is trash…comparing us to the Knicks is a low blow…we got hamstrung by the 2nd apron rules that screwed us over right after we went all-in. Ya we could’ve handled things better, but I think players appreciate an owner doing what Ishbia has done. No one has said negative things about the team in the Ishbia era…it was constant in the Sarver era.
