Phx-Suns.Net

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

carey wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Would you like it if your work hired somebody who does your exact same job and made you "compete" to keep your role at the company? I know this happens often in real life, but it is usually not much fun.

Really? This might be the worst analogy I've ever seen you make Marty. I shouldn't even have to explain why a professional athlete's job is not like any other job in the world so I won't. There is a real argument to make for McDonough's penchant for adding redundant pieces but this isn't it.

I don't even think it is an analogy. It is literally what happened to Len. He was being groomed as a starter, but then they brought in a veteran (Chandler) who took his starting minutes and role away. Sure, in a perfect world the players are all automatons who will just suck it up and play as hard as they can regardless of their role or the other players on the team. And Chandler doesn't take 100% of the blame for Len's anemic improvement last year. But it's still a huge deal.

If we hadn't signed Chandler, Len probably would have gotten a lot more minutes with better teammates. His numbers would probably look a lot different. But we decided we didn't want that; we wanted a long-shot at signing a mediocre free agent in LaMarcus Aldridge by signing one of his supposed veteran buddies. And that failed.

It's becoming a pattern with McDo. He already has Bledsoe and Dragic, then he goes and gets I. Thomas. He already has Warren, he drafts Josh Jackson. He drafts both Bender and Chriss in the same draft and then they have to awkwardly compete with each other for minutes, with Watson showing a clear preference for Chriss. He signs Chandler to jump in front of Len.

I don't mind signing players for depth. But if you think Len is your future center, maybe actually let him show whether he can succeed in that role, rather than undermining him by putting a vet starter in his way?

You have to draft and sign people you think are upgrades. If we didn't do that, we'd trot out a roster full of Mike James'... Fucking pass on that. It's a player's job to compete, if they don't like it, good riddance. You've been competing your whole life, now that you've made it, you think that stops? Gimme a break. I like Warren, I think he is gonna be just fine, just don't get the look at me stuff.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

carey wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Would you like it if your work hired somebody who does your exact same job and made you "compete" to keep your role at the company? I know this happens often in real life, but it is usually not much fun.

Really? This might be the worst analogy I've ever seen you make Marty. I shouldn't even have to explain why a professional athlete's job is not like any other job in the world so I won't. There is a real argument to make for McDonough's penchant for adding redundant pieces but this isn't it.

I don't even think it is an analogy. It is literally what happened to Len. He was being groomed as a starter, but then they brought in a veteran (Chandler) who took his starting minutes and role away. Sure, in a perfect world the players are all automatons who will just suck it up and play as hard as they can regardless of their role or the other players on the team. And Chandler doesn't take 100% of the blame for Len's anemic improvement last year. But it's still a huge deal.

If we hadn't signed Chandler, Len probably would have gotten a lot more minutes with better teammates. His numbers would probably look a lot different. But we decided we didn't want that; we wanted a long-shot at signing a mediocre free agent in LaMarcus Aldridge by signing one of his supposed veteran buddies. And that failed.

It's becoming a pattern with McDo. He already has Bledsoe and Dragic, then he goes and gets I. Thomas. He already has Warren, he drafts Josh Jackson. He drafts both Bender and Chriss in the same draft and then they have to awkwardly compete with each other for minutes, with Watson showing a clear preference for Chriss. He signs Chandler to jump in front of Len.

I don't mind signing players for depth. But if you think Len is your future center, maybe actually let him show whether he can succeed in that role, rather than undermining him by putting a vet starter in his way?

You have to draft and sign people you think are upgrades. If we didn't do that, we'd trot out a roster full of Mike James'... f*** pass on that. It's a player's job to compete, if they don't like it, good riddance. You've been competing your whole life, now that you've made it, you think that stops? Gimme a break. I like Warren, I think he is gonna be just fine, just don't get the look at me stuff.

Maybe he just forgot to log out. I'm not going to worry about this until there's more to it than one quickly-deleted tweet.

https://twitter.com/KellanOlson/status/886683418498551812

I have no problem bringing in competition. I just hate it when the competition is not apart of the future.

carey wrote:https://twitter.com/KellanOlson/status/886683418498551812

Who was Bender roasting in the Memphis game? NBA quality player?

I don't have a problem with Bender and Chriss having to split time.

I don't have a problem with Jackson and Warren having to split time.

That kind of competition is good and you find time to play good players. Somehow.

I do have a problem with bringing in a Tyson Chandler when you need to find out if Len can play as a starting center at some point. Chandler's not going to be here when the team is actually good again, so I don't really see the point of hanging on to him. Len, Williams & possibly someone else should be getting those minutes - not because he hasn't earned them, but because it's in the best interest of the team.

The Bobster wrote:I don't have a problem with Bender and Chriss having to split time.

I don't have a problem with Jackson and Warren having to split time.

That kind of competition is good and you find time to play good players. Somehow.

I do have a problem with bringing in a Tyson Chandler when you need to find out if Len can play as a starting center at some point. Chandler's not going to be here when the team is actually good again, so I don't really see the point of hanging on to him. Len, Williams & possibly someone else should be getting those minutes - not because he hasn't earned them, but because it's in the best interest of the team.

I think you hold onto Chandler if you feel his presumed stabilizing presence in the locker room and mentorship of the impressionable young talent is worth more to the long-term prospects of the team than the potential stagnation he is causing to Len (if that is even happening).

It's becoming a pattern with McDo. He already has Bledsoe and Dragic, then he goes and gets I. Thomas. He already has Warren, he drafts Josh Jackson. He drafts both Bender and Chriss in the same draft and then they have to awkwardly compete with each other for minutes, with Watson showing a clear preference for Chriss. He signs Chandler to jump in front of Len.

I think the problem (if you want to call it that) is that we have a lot of good players, just not any great players, outside of Booker. We've been losing, by and large due to McD's moves, and everything needs be re-evaluated/upgraded (except Booker). McD had a strategy of acquiring assets to trade for a star, which didn't work out; he tried putting two scoring guards in the backcourt, which didn't work out; he gambled with Chandler for a shot Aldridge, which didn't work out. We'll see if drafting Chriss and Bender works out. But I like the idea of the Booker/JJ tandem, so that's a (new) start. So while all the doubling up has been a pattern, I can't blame him for drafting Jackson. He was the guy to take. No matter who we would've taken there would have been a logjam somewhere.

So, now we've reset again around Booker, Chriss, Bender and Jackson. It seems guys like TJ and Len have fallen a bit by the wayside after 3-4 years so there's uncertainty about their roles and future. I think TJ can certainly be a valuable piece after watching Jackson handle and distribute in SL. They should compliment each other well between JJ's passing and TJ's scoring off the ball. How do you get the both of them on the floor? Maybe Jackson at the 2 or 4? He can probably move around the lineup easier than TJ. Still, TJ's probably not a starter. He has to be OK with that or he's gotta go. 6th Man of the Year type, can still get 30 minutes a game. But it's looking like Bledsoe, Booker, Jackson, Chriss, Chandler with Ulis, Reed, TJ, Bender, maybe Len off the bench.

Josh Jackson summer league highlights



Get hyped

I think JJ and TJ will work well when they play together. Im very excited to see a possible lineup of ulis, booker, jj, tj and bender at some point

Warren can spend time at PF. Actually, he did last season , and that gave us the best lineup (Bledsoe-Booker-Tucker-Warren-Chandler) among the ones getting any significant time (56.5 win% over 157 mins, per 82games).

The issue is having both Chriss and Bender. If you slid Bender to the five, TJ has room. But then you have to glue Chandler to the bench and/or let Len go.

In the end, playing Chriss is a problem at the moment, because imo he is in no way a superior prospect to Bender or Warren (and that was even before this summer league).

Btw, in a vacuum, I think Chriss' best shot to succeed is to be developed at SF, not PF (let alone C).

There's no way Chriss is a SF.

Danimal wrote:Josh Jackson summer league highlights



Get hyped

I think JJ and TJ will work well when they play together. Im very excited to see a possible lineup of ulis, booker, jj, tj and bender at some point

Consider me hyped. Yeah, I would love to see that lineup as well. "Small Ball" with a mobile, smart 7 footer.

Bender vs Grizz. The thing I like best about this game is how he looks so comfortable (especially on the perimeter). He knows he should be beating these guys, and so he takes it in stride.

[youtube][/youtube]

I wasn't able to catch the last 2 games but have seen the highlights and am really encouraged by Bender. He's not a great athlete but knows how to play within himself, is fundamentally sound and has such size and coordination, it's hard to guard against. A fear of mine is that he's able to get some of this stuff off against lesser player in SL but may still struggle against NBA players who are stronger, quicker, and maybe as tall/long night in and night out. Another concern is that he's more of a finesse guy than a hard charging, above the rim type. But the development is encouraging and given his size, I think he's projecting nicely into that 4/5 role with maybe some spot minutes at the 3.

ShelC wrote:There's no way Chriss is a SF.

There is no way he is a power forward either.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

ShelC wrote:There's no way Chriss is a SF.

There is no way he is a power forward either.

Why do you say this? He seems to be more of a PF than a SF for sure, but he seems like a classic PF or a new age C. Still needs a lot of work on his post moves and awareness though in a classical sense.

I don't want to open a can of worms, but where do you guys see the power game (other than dunks)? He is a tweener in the bad way.

Ring_Wanted wrote:I don't want to open a can of worms, but where do you guys see the power game (other than dunks)? He is a tweener in the bad way.

I'm not the best to answer this, because frankly I'm not a big fan of Chriss and have been a doubter. I hope he turns it around and realizes the vision of Watson as a future all time great at PF.

I don't get the Chriss hate. Yeah he didn't have a great summer league. But he was doing pretty well late last season. He's also further along than Amare was at this point in their respective careers. Let's all just chill and give it a minute. They want him to be like Draymond, which is a tall order, but even Draymond didn't get off the bench his first two years. He's got the physical talent, needs to be put in the work and increase his bball iq. It can still happen, he's still a teenager.

MightyMoog wrote:I don't get the Chriss hate. Yeah he didn't have a great summer league. But he was doing pretty well late last season. He's also further along than Amare was at this point in their respective careers...

That's false but I'm willing to give him some time to mature and improve. He did look pretty good at the end of last season and that's all the more reason to be discouraged by his attitude and play in SL. He went backwards against lesser competition.

Amare his rookie year, dunked and couldn't shoot. Chriss at least showed some semblance of a jumpshot.