Phx-Suns.Net

He suppose could hold out, or go play overseas

I guess, but then you call his bluff. He's not holding out 4 years

Remember when Steve Francis went #2 to the Vancouver Grizzlies and refused to play there? So they had to trade him to Houston for, I believe, Arizona's own Michael Dickerson? What a bunch of crap that was.

carey wrote:Y'all are pretty down on McDonough, huh? Lol.

Perhaps my post was a little strong--I actually think that he could be a good GM, and I have generally liked his approach up to this point. I just think its funny how McD has often talked about using draft picks to trade for a star.

I think McD is a guy who knows how to do the job from a functional and technical standpoint, but his ability to put a winning roster together is very questionable and we still haven't seen or heard a coherent plan. Even now...are we rebuilding? Trying to make the playoffs with vets? What's our identity as a team? We drafted two guys last year who play the same position but in different ways. It's been 4 years already, where we going with this?

You don't want to tip your hand too soon. Build the roster under the radar, collect assests, develop those assests, and prepare to strike when no one is looking.

Everyone is trying to figure out what Phoenix is doing, but most will admit that they have a collection of nice young pieces. If they could figure out how to get the other teams to do their tanking for them, like the Nets do for the Celtics, that would be ideal. Then next year, go try to win games without sacrificing playing time and development for the young guys.

Lol!

OMG. Well, I guess Lonzo isn't his dad. That's encouraging.

but most will admit that they have a collection of nice young pieces.

Again, individually. We're a collection of nice players but do they mesh? I don't really see it. If our young guys are Ulis, Booker, Warren, Bender, Chriss, maybe Len...I just don't see it. Ulis and Booker yea but even Ulis most likely isn't a starter. Jury is still out on Chriss and Bender and the question remains whether they can play together effectively in the frontcourt.

carey wrote:

Lol!

You can't tell me that kid won't be selected by the Lakers.

carey wrote:

Lol!

lol

I've seen Lonzo saying on TNT(?) that his dad is a big talker and he just got used to it. Playing in LA would be nice because it's his hometown, but his dream is to ply in the NBA, not for any one specific team.

ShelC wrote:

but most will admit that they have a collection of nice young pieces.

Again, individually. We're a collection of nice players but do they mesh? I don't really see it. If our young guys are Ulis, Booker, Warren, Bender, Chriss, maybe Len...I just don't see it. Ulis and Booker yea but even Ulis most likely isn't a starter. Jury is still out on Chriss and Bender and the question remains whether they can play together effectively in the frontcourt.

I agree, but I think that McD will get better about understanding how parts fit together.

ShelC wrote:

but most will admit that they have a collection of nice young pieces.

Again, individually. We're a collection of nice players but do they mesh? I don't really see it. If our young guys are Ulis, Booker, Warren, Bender, Chriss, maybe Len...I just don't see it. Ulis and Booker yea but even Ulis most likely isn't a starter. Jury is still out on Chriss and Bender and the question remains whether they can play together effectively in the frontcourt.

I agree, we haven't seen it yet and I don't know if we ever will with that collection. Both Bender and Chriss need more development, maturity and strength. Hopefully Bender will eventually be a stretch center and needs to build strength and develop a consistent 3 pt shot. Chriss looks like he may turn out to be something, but it's not even close to a sure thing. I really think that Warren is going to a take a jump in this 4th year, and I could easily see him be a 20 ppg or more scorer this year. I don't even know if they will bring back Len, I hope that his contract demands aren't very high and they can bring him back under a reasonable deal, but he may not be a part of the future. I also agree on Ulis. I think he's a good backup in this league, but not a starter. That's one reason I'm hoping for a pg in this draft. Personally, I think a player like Lonzo makes everyone better and brings them all together. These lottery disappointments aren't helping matters, but I hope that they have a good plan and I trust there will be a good pick on the board when they draft. Now whether or not the player they pick pans out, we will see.

ShelC wrote:

In2ition wrote:You don't want to tip your hand too soon. Build the roster under the radar, collect assests, develop those assests, and prepare to strike when no one is looking.

Everyone is trying to figure out what Phoenix is doing, but most will admit that they have a collection of nice young pieces. If they could figure out how to get the other teams to do their tanking for them, like the Nets do for the Celtics, that would be ideal. Then next year, go try to win games without sacrificing playing time and development for the young guys.

Again, individually. We're a collection of nice players but do they mesh? I don't really see it. If our young guys are Ulis, Booker, Warren, Bender, Chriss, maybe Len...I just don't see it. Ulis and Booker yea but even Ulis most likely isn't a starter. Jury is still out on Chriss and Bender and the question remains whether they can play together effectively in the frontcourt.

I'm still very optimistic. I think Warren and Ulis are good pieces, Bender and Chriss overflowing with two-way potential, and Booker the type of go-to player you need to reach the top. The biggest question re how they will mesh, in my mind, is where Bender fits. I suspect we'll turn him into a super sixth by the time we're a playoff team, which I expect to be two years from now.

We still need a third guard and a starting center. TJ isn't lighting the world on fire, but I'm still hopeful he has another gear. I wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted a stronger prospect to replace him (Tatum). But in terms of fit with our current roster, the guy I like the most is Zach Collins.

I think Ryan's done a great job assembling not only a promising collection of young talent, but high character individuals as well. Moving forward, the big step we still have to take is getting this group of kids to win ball games. Can't break down defensively or throw away possessions. Whether we keep the vets or not - doesn't really matter. It's all about development at this point.

ShelC wrote:I think McD is a guy who knows how to do the job from a functional and technical standpoint, but his ability to put a winning roster together is very questionable and we still haven't seen or heard a coherent plan. Even now...are we rebuilding? Trying to make the playoffs with vets? What's our identity as a team? We drafted two guys last year who play the same position but in different ways. It's been 4 years already, where we going with this?

When you have a young bad team, just about the best you can do is to acquire good young players via draft, trade, and free agency. The issue of how they fit together comes second. I think McDo has done a much better job than, say, Philly in this regard. Philly has like 5-6 guys who play the 4-5 spots and almost no talent at their guard positions. How are they supposed to win with that roster?

By contrast, our team has a fairly even spread of talent at all 5 positions. Sure, we need upgrades in several places to be good, but I mostly agree with the decisions we have made over the past 2-3 years. I also don't think McDo is making the classic mistake of going out and making a splash to "win now," which is what dooms a lot of rebuilds. I'd much rather have a gradual 5-6 year build to becoming a great team than try to rush it after 2-3 years of being bad and then get mired in mediocrity/malaise for a decade.

You can second-guess some of McDo's decisions with the benefit of hindsight, but he's mostly done well in each situation handed to him. The biggest blemish on his resume is his handling of the too-many-PGs scenario with Dragic, Bledsoe, Thomas, and Knight (ugh, just reading the list of their names gets my blood boiling). And I don't defend his choices in that situation; I was shouting and screaming about giving away that Lakers pick for half a season of Knight. He screwed up. But I think his overall resume has been good and has been significantly above average for what many GMs would do.

McDo has drafted really well overall. Booker, Warren, Ulis, Chriss, Bender, Len, ... Not 100% of these guys are stars, but they're all guys you can play in a rotation, and some of them have real star potential. It's a nice young core to build on. I didn't like every pick at the time (e.g. Chriss), but McDo usually ends up being right in the end. Chriss has been a breath of fresh air. Overall when draft day approaches, I have a lot of confidence that McDo and his team did their homework and will pick a really good player at their spot. I'm not afraid of the #4 pick this summer; they'll bring everybody in, and they'll pick the best one. I have faith in that. That's about all I can ask out of my GM.

Summary: I like McDo and think he's doing well overall. I think he gets too much crap on here for not batting 1.000 on his transactions, when no GM nails it every time. He's made mistakes, but I think he's far above average and that we are lucky to have him.

Tatum fans, I need you to convince me why he's the right pick. I don't question his ability, I think he's going to be a really good player, my concerns are as follows:

How does he fit with Booker?
What do we do with Warren?
Will he be a good defensive player?

I'm operating under the assumption that 1-3 go Fultz, ball, Jackson. Convince me that Tatum is the right pick over Isaac or Fox.

Tatum has a definable NBA skill which is scoring. I think his offensive game will translate perfectly, moreso than Jackson because his got good form and knows how to get to his spots. He's fundamentally sound in that regard. He's not just getting by on length, athleticism and throwing up some shots (as I've seen Jackson do). If need a bucket, he's the guy.

Yea we have Booker, but it can't be all on him to do the scoring/shooting. Bledsoe and Warren are scorers who can shoot, but it's not their natural skill. I think Tatum is a shooter who can score and will extend his range. I also think he can play bigger, as he was more of a faceup/perimeter 4 and had success in that role with strong rebounding numbers.

I think he's almost prototypical from a physical standoint. 6-8, around 205 with a good frame to add some more strength and weight and a 6-11 wingspan. I don't think he's a natural defender but became a better one as the year went on.

I think he and Booker can work together as a two headed scoring threat. Booker's probably a bit headier in terms of IQ and a better ballhandler/distributor so he could just as easily set Tatum up for scoring opportunities.

I think Fox is probably the BPA given that scenario and I think his talent is greater than Tatum's, but will we take another PG? Isaac is a high risk-high reward type. I don't think he's a SF in the Durant/Giannis mold. I think he's a physical freak athlete and we have two of those we're developing already.

Ya, I worry about putting Isaac on a team with Chriss and Bender. Especially Bender, they overlap a lot and I'm not really confident either of them can really play the 3. All 3 are really 4's who could maybe defend the 3 and 5 in certain situations. Offensively I don't think they can play the 3.

If we draft Tatum, do we keep Warren?

I think we'd have to move him for a perimeter defender. Could we get a mid first for him? We might have to add some more to the trade but I'd love to land Donovan Mitchell, Frank Ntilikina, or OG Anunoby. I think all could be elite defenders and we would need them if we are running Tatum/Booker. I do think Tatum could be fine defensively, but nothing special.

Why wouldnt you keep Warren if you draft Tatum? A team can have more than 1 SF. Tatum has the frame that can fill into a small ball 4, even Warren can do that now, they also have completely different games, I think they could play together.

I don't love Warren's game in today's NBA, but he can score the hell out of the ball. I'd rather he come off the bench and light it up against lesser players and maybe get easier baskets playing with a guy like Ulis.