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Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:32 pm
by specialsauce
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:42 am
How about Crowder/Saric/Shamet and 4 1sts for Markkanen/Clarkson/Vanderbilt
Paul/Booker/Bridges/Lauri/Ayton
Payne/Clarkson/CamJ/Craig/Vandy
DWJ/Okogie/Lee/Biyombo/Landale
Crazy deep team, but is Booker/Markkanen good enough to be a championship 1-2? Honestly I think yes, he’s been incredible this year. 22/8 on 53/41/84 shooting for a .656 TS%.
You’d have enough scoring punch that Paul can just be a 20-25 minute a game table setter. Clarkson can keep bench units a float with his scoring ability. Vandy gives us a really phenomenal defensive player that can play small ball 5 and just seems like the perfect role player.
Imagine a lineup with Okogie/Bridges/Vandy out there on D? Throw Craig and either Booker or CamJ out there and you have your switch everything final shot defensive lineup. Include Ayton if they have a big we’re worried about or absolutely need to secure the rebound.
You want shooting? A Clarkson/Booker/Bridges/CamJ/Lauri lineup could unload from 3 with every single player being a great to elite 3pt shooter.
You need a last second shot and afraid the defense will just trap Booker?
A Paul/Clarkson/Booker/Bridges/Lauri lineup gives you 5 guys who can create. Could throw Ayton or Vandy out there instead of Bridges or Paul if you want someone to crash the glass too.
I think this team would have everything and I think I’ve talked myself into doing it. Would Utah though? Do they really need 15 acquired future 1sts instead of 11? They found something in Lauri and he might be worth 4 1sts by himself to them at this point. I don’t think they do it.
4 1sts??? Not a chance. That’s a crazy pay for a player having one breakout year
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:36 pm
by Superbone
Shamet should have to pay the Suns. Am I right?
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:28 pm
by Split T
specialsauce wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:32 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:42 am
How about Crowder/Saric/Shamet and 4 1sts for Markkanen/Clarkson/Vanderbilt
Paul/Booker/Bridges/Lauri/Ayton
Payne/Clarkson/CamJ/Craig/Vandy
DWJ/Okogie/Lee/Biyombo/Landale
Crazy deep team, but is Booker/Markkanen good enough to be a championship 1-2? Honestly I think yes, he’s been incredible this year. 22/8 on 53/41/84 shooting for a .656 TS%.
You’d have enough scoring punch that Paul can just be a 20-25 minute a game table setter. Clarkson can keep bench units a float with his scoring ability. Vandy gives us a really phenomenal defensive player that can play small ball 5 and just seems like the perfect role player.
Imagine a lineup with Okogie/Bridges/Vandy out there on D? Throw Craig and either Booker or CamJ out there and you have your switch everything final shot defensive lineup. Include Ayton if they have a big we’re worried about or absolutely need to secure the rebound.
You want shooting? A Clarkson/Booker/Bridges/CamJ/Lauri lineup could unload from 3 with every single player being a great to elite 3pt shooter.
You need a last second shot and afraid the defense will just trap Booker?
A Paul/Clarkson/Booker/Bridges/Lauri lineup gives you 5 guys who can create. Could throw Ayton or Vandy out there instead of Bridges or Paul if you want someone to crash the glass too.
I think this team would have everything and I think I’ve talked myself into doing it. Would Utah though? Do they really need 15 acquired future 1sts instead of 11? They found something in Lauri and he might be worth 4 1sts by himself to them at this point. I don’t think they do it.
4 1sts??? Not a chance. That’s a crazy pay for a player having one breakout year
It feels like a lot, but you’re not getting him for less. And it’s really only 3 for Lauri, you’d have to give up atleast 1 1st for Clarkson/Vandy too. And it’s not like Lauri has just had 1 good year. He was solid last year for Cleveland and looked very promising early with the Bulls. He’s 25 and signed for 17 million a year for 3 years. That’s incredible value.
Then consider our 1sts would be low quality 1sts. The starting price for Lauri alone would be 3 1sts or 2 high value 1sts.
The truth is we’d be getting 3 players for 4 picks. Markkanen will almost certainly be better than any of the individual picks and there’s a good chance Vandy and Clarkson would be too. Then consider you get them now and don’t have to wait years to both draft and develop them and it seems like pretty good value.
The one issue is can you use the picks to bring in a bigger star? That’s a legitimate question. Lauri won’t ever be a #1 guy. Still, this trade adds a #2(offensively at least) a true 6th man and another playoff rotation guy, all without losing a single rotation guy.
It turns CP3 into a 5th starter, puts CamJ back on the bench as a 6th-7th man and makes Cam Payne an 8th-9th man. Pushes Lee/Okogie/Craig down to 10th-12th men. Really it balances the roster pretty perfectly.
It would limit your ability to upgrade going forward, but you’d have Booker/Lauri/Mikal/Ayton/CamJ/Vandy all at 26 or younger. Feel like you could even move on from a guy like CamJ at that point to replenish the picks. Or even Ayton could be moved for the right price.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:17 pm
by INFORMER
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:41 pm
Yeah, I mean, probably Okogie, but the correct answer is "neither." Okogie would have to improve a lot to be worth a contract like that.
Bingo.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:21 pm
by INFORMER
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:42 am
How about Crowder/Saric/Shamet and 4 1sts for Markkanen/Clarkson/Vanderbilt
I don't understand how you can give up four first round picks and not get a star back. And I Markkanen, but he has never been healthy and this is putting a lot of stock in a quarter of a season of high level play.
This feels like a good way to screw up your franchise for half a decade.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:04 pm
by Split T
Ok here’s my new idea:
Ayton, CamJ, 2 1sts for Siakam and Juancho Hernangomez.
Then Shamet and a 1st for Kuzma
Then a 3 team deal where we send Crowder to Miami, Miami sends Duncan Robinson a 1st and a 2nd to Utah, and Utah sends us Olynyk and Beasley. We also send Utah Saric and a 1st, while Utah sends Rudy Gay to Miami.
Paul/Booker/Bridges/Kuzma/Siakam
Payne/Beasley/Lee/Hernangomez/Olynyk
DWJ/Okogie/Craig/Ish/Biyombo or Landale
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:18 pm
by Shabazz
It’s too much for Siakam.
I would just do the second and 3rd trades.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:21 pm
by Split T
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:18 pm
It’s too much for Siakam.
I would just do the second and 3rd trades.
What would you give up for Siakam?
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:38 pm
by Shabazz
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:21 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:18 pm
It’s too much for Siakam.
I would just do the second and 3rd trades.
What would you give up for Siakam?
Cam, salary match and picks.
I don’t think you need Siakam and Kuz. That’s overkill without interior D.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 am
by Uncle_Gene
Ayton for Nikola Vucevic ?
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:12 am
by Flagrant Fowl
Are you a Lakers fan or something?
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:19 am
by Mori Chu
I like Siakam, but to me he doesn't seem like a guy worth trading four future 1sts along with a bunch of players, or whatever gigantic offer. I do think the Suns need a trade to improve to really contend for the title this year, but honestly I am worried that we'll make a dumb trade where we give up too much and just sort of move laterally rather than definitely improving.
It's too bad that the Nets have been playing so well. They are currently 20-12, better than our own record of 19-13. Durant is having a great season, averaging 30.1 ppg on 56/36/92 splits, 6.6 rpg, and 5.3 apg. Those are great numbers. We would have been a juggernaut with him on our team. Now we'll probably never see it.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:30 am
by Split T
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:19 am
I like Siakam, but to me he doesn't seem like a guy worth trading four future 1sts along with a bunch of players, or whatever gigantic offer. I do think the Suns need a trade to improve to really contend for the title this year, but honestly I am worried that we'll make a dumb trade where we give up too much and just sort of move laterally rather than definitely improving.
It's too bad that the Nets have been playing so well. They are currently 20-12, better than our own record of 19-13. Durant is having a great season, averaging 30.1 ppg on 56/36/92 splits, 6.6 rpg, and 5.3 apg. Those are great numbers. We would have been a juggernaut with him on our team. Now we'll probably never see it.
Pascal is 26/9/7 on 49/35/78 splits. He’s 6’9 230 and is a legitimate 4 who can also play the 5. He’s a good defender. He can run the offense and would be an elite release valve if teams trap Booker. He is also averaging 8 fta per game. Oh, he also doesn’t turn the ball over much. He’s about as perfect of a fit as they come for what we need. Did I mention he’s 28 and makes a perfect 1-2 combo with Booker for the next 5 years? Ya Durant is better, but if the price is the same, I actually think Siakam is the better target. He opens up our window for contention. I’d give up a lot for him.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:34 am
by Split T
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:38 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:21 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:18 pm
It’s too much for Siakam.
I would just do the second and 3rd trades.
What would you give up for Siakam?
Cam, salary match and picks.
I don’t think you need Siakam and Kuz. That’s overkill without interior D.
Do you need both? No, but it doesn’t hurt to have more. I do think you’d probably rather have a better shooter though. They can both shoot, but not like CamJ.
I also fooled around with the idea of getting someone like Poeltl or Holmes in a Crowder deal for some size and defense. I opted for the floor spacing of Olynyk.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:35 am
by O_Gardino
Y'all are talking about our picks like we are still in the lottery. Why would anyone give up a good young player just to get the 25th pick? I think Kuz is a possibility because they might lose him for nothing, but I think it takes 2 or 3 picks to beat what other teams might offer. I'm not convinced that Lauri or Siakam is on the table, but I'd be happy to get either for Crowder + picks. Those 2 just seem like perfect fits for the cities they play in.
I know it's talked to death, but I still want Dame. Somebody convince Portland that it's time to start over. Paul + Crowder + picks gives them salary relief and good mentoring for the next generation. But surely they wouldn't give up Dame without young prospects and higher picks.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:38 am
by Split T
Dame doesn’t want to leave and we aren’t trading CP3. I’d also just prefer Siakam. At this point he’s a better player, more reliably healthy, and quite a bit younger.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:44 am
by O_Gardino
Well, it's obviously not going to happen. But I do think Dame would be happy to come here and compete for a title with Book.
I do like Siakam a lot, but I don't believe in a CP3 / Book / Siakam / Ayton combo. Just doesn't feel right to me.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:02 am
by Split T
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:44 am
Well, it's obviously not going to happen. But I do think Dame would be happy to come here and compete for a title with Book.
I do like Siakam a lot, but I don't believe in a CP3 / Book / Siakam / Ayton combo. Just doesn't feel right to me.
Well I think you’re probably trading Ayton for Siakam.
The only thing I’m really looking at is Booker/Siakam. Then you build around them. We could have a future core of Booker/Bridges/CamJ/Siakam. The 5th guy could honestly be anyone…we’ve got every position covered. You’d want some size, but having Siakam makes me more ok with using replacement bigs like Biyombo or Landale.
My dream would be Ayton and 3 1sts for Siakam. Then you still have Crowder/Saric/Shamet/CamJ and a 1st to complete the roster. I think CamJ would make a lot of sense still, so I’d try to hang onto him and move those other 3 contracts with our 1st to add another piece or 2. And I’d look at Utah, they are loaded with guys we could use(Clarkson, Beasley, Vanderbilt, Olynyk) and could very well be available.
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:25 am
by Mori Chu
What do you think of that core defensively? How does a Booker/Bridges/CamJ/Siakam core team stop guys like Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, or Zion?
Re: Jae Crowder trade request
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:28 am
by Wally_West
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:25 am
What do you think of that core defensively? How does a Booker/Bridges/CamJ/Siakam core team stop guys like Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, or Zion?
Does anybody stop those players?