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Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:04 am
by Split T
ShelC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:00 am
It can be unfrozen though…we also can’t trade 2032 anyways due to the Stepien rule…well I guess we could if we kept 2031.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:10 am
by ShelC
Sarver mortgaged the future when he first became owner by selling picks and aging the roster up because every year was seen as "win-now".
My point about the Knicks was that they're a premiere market with great facilities and a rich owner willing to spend but had a decade of losing and dysfunction that players didn't want anything to do with. It was the same as us in the mid 2010s. Players weren't signing with NY because they were losing, just like players weren't signing with us because we were losing. Market doesn't mean as much to most players these days.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:21 am
by Ring_Wanted
ShelC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:10 am
Sarver mortgaged the future when he first became owner by selling picks and aging the roster up because every year was seen as "win-now".
When Sarver sold picks, he did it to save money (two picks to OKC to take KT, Rudy Fernández to dump James Jones, Sergio Rodríguez for cash). He also used picks in trades with the goal to improve the team (like adding the 1stR that became Nate Robinson to acquire KT). But he did sell picks to save money, which is exactly the opposite of what Ishbia does.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:28 am
by ShelC
The result is the same tho.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:31 am
by TOO
It's crazy to just keep wracking your brains over the future when we have no idea how things are gonna play out. There are multiple ways to build a team, most of it seems to take getting lucky. You can laud OKC but they still traded for their best player, you can build like LA who just signs FA because Lakers.
Worry about picks 6 years out is crazy.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:47 am
by BigLewy
I swear I saw a quote from Ishbia where he said something along the lines of yea I don't care about being above the apron for a few years to go after a championship, but then he would re-evaluate once it came time to really pay the piper, aka your pick is frozen at the end of the first round.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 12:25 pm
by Split T
ShelC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:28 am
The result is the same tho.
I’m not sure it is though…your roster has the potential to age out with both, but players notice the why. Would you rather play for an owner willing to spend for top talent, or the one who dumps talent because they cost a little too much? I guarantee you not a single player on the team cares 1 lick about that 2031 pick…they absolutely would care if we dumped Beal for an expiring contract just to get off his salary.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 12:26 pm
by Split T
BigLewy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:47 am
I swear I saw a quote from Ishbia where he said something along the lines of yea I don't care about being above the apron for a few years to go after a championship, but then he would re-evaluate once it came time to really pay the piper, aka your pick is frozen at the end of the first round.
He did say that. He also made it sound like next year was the year to get under the 2nd apron to avoid the penalties…so I don’t know if he had it wrong or if we have it wrong, but I guess we’ll find out.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 1:19 pm
by specialsauce
ShelC wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:10 am
Sarver mortgaged the future when he first became owner by selling picks and aging the roster up because every year was seen as "win-now".
My point about the Knicks was that they're a premiere market with great facilities and a rich owner willing to spend but had a decade of losing and dysfunction that players didn't want anything to do with. It was the same as us in the mid 2010s. Players weren't signing with NY because they were losing, just like players weren't signing with us because we were losing. Market doesn't mean as much to most players these days.
Dolan is a well known douchebag, nobody likes him.
And Sarver let JJ walk because he didn't want to pay him
Ishbia is overpaying players with an understanding they'll be used as trade chips. You're on different planets
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 1:50 pm
by Wally_West
The way some of you talk about this potential Jimmy trade is just silly.
JIMMY BUTLER MAKES THIS TEAM MASSIVELY BETTER!!
Jimmy is heads and shoulders better than Beal. He’s a great defensive player, great passer, got that fuckin dawg in him and unlike Beal, he raises his game in the biggest moments on the biggest stage. Dude just had a 35pt, 19 reb, 10ast game like a month ago before going crazy so he can get traded.
If you don’t see how Jimmy makes this team massively better, that’s just you being down bad on this team. I know many fans are down bad on this team, I GET IT but I just don’t see it the same way as most people as to the problems of this team. To me, the problem of this team is clearly roster construction. We have the worst big man rotation in league, and our supporting cast is a bunch of guards who either are average defensive players or horrible defensive players. No one is winning like that. No one!
Jimmy helps with size and defense and Richards is a move in the right direction with the terrible center position.
A line up of Book-Jimmy-Dunn-KD-Richards is freaking great!
Elite perimeter defenders in Jimmy and Dunn
Decent rim protector in Richards
KD, who is a great help defender can now do what he does best and roam on defense.
Guys, that’s a great lineup!! Maybe swap Grayson for Dunn for shooting purposes but either way, that lineup up is nice!What are we talking about here???
Also trading for Jimmy is the path out of the apron problems, He only wants 3/110 according to Gambo, KD’s homie said KD is willing to sign a team friendly deal if they get Jimmy. Split laid it out a few days ago how we can get out of the second apron from that. How is that not a great thing? This isn’t a move to just make a move, there’s clear strategy behind it.
To recap: Jimmy move makes us much much better and puts us in much better place financially, a win-win for everyone.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:10 pm
by Split T
Appreciate that WW
A top 7 of Book, KD, Jimmy, Dunn, Richards, Grayson, Royce is pretty solid. That’s not counting Tyus or Morris either…or Oso. Those top 7 would be the guys I’d expect to play in the playoffs. Another big would obviously be nice as we are still quite weak at C, but that’s a good roster. If they still can’t do anything it is still easier to blow it up because you no longer have Beal’s contract with a NTC on the books.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:13 pm
by Split T
I’d be really curious what those who don’t want to trade for Butler(Assume you can get it done for Beal and 2031) want to do?
Is there another move you’d make in-season?
Do you just want to tear the whole thing down?
Run out the season and blow it up this summer?
Retool around Booker?
Give me some thoughts…it feels like a lot of people just want to complain and don’t have an answer for how to fix this. Just dreaming about having lots of picks and no expectations. Give me your 5 year plan.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:16 pm
by Mori Chu
I don't think Jimmy Butler is nearly as useful on a team that already has KD and Booker. Butler is more impressive on a team without other primary scorers and finishers. The lesson we should be learning from this current failed era of Suns basketball is that you can't just acquire a bunch of finishers and scorers and pay each of them $50m/yr and expect the team to work out well.
Butler is also famous for conserving some of his energy during the regular season and sitting out some games to save himself for the playoffs. This team desperately needs some infusion of wins and energy and regular season success right now. I don't think we can pace ourselves and save anything for the playoffs when at this rate we may not even make the play-in.
IMO we're almost certain to buckle by the trade deadline and include the 2031 pick to get the Beal/Butler deal done. And then I guess we'll get to see how helpful Jimmy Butler is. Maybe we'll be the scariest 10 seed in league history. Nobody wants to play the new-look Suns in the 1st round!
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:24 pm
by Split T
I’m curious why you don’t see Butler as useful with Booker and Durant? Who would be an ideal pairing for those guys in your mind?
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:26 pm
by TOO
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:16 pm
I don't think Jimmy Butler is nearly as useful on a team that already has KD and Booker. Butler is more impressive on a team without other primary scorers and finishers. The lesson we should be learning from this current failed era of Suns basketball is that you can't just acquire a bunch of finishers and scorers and pay each of them $50m/yr and expect the team to work out well.
Butler is also famous for conserving some of his energy during the regular season and sitting out some games to save himself for the playoffs. This team desperately needs some infusion of wins and energy and regular season success right now. I don't think we can pace ourselves and save anything for the playoffs when at this rate we may not even make the play-in.
IMO we're almost certain to buckle by the trade deadline and include the 2031 pick to get the Beal/Butler deal done. And then I guess we'll get to see how helpful Jimmy Butler is. Maybe we'll be the scariest 10 seed in league history. Nobody wants to play the new-look Suns in the 1st round!
I think Butler has shown himself to be a very malleable player, I think he fits great with Booker and KD. He can score in a variety of ways, can pass, defense at a decent level and also has shown to be the sort of emphatic attitude this team needs.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:05 pm
by Split T
Gambo still saying we aren’t offering it
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:12 pm
by specialsauce
Wally_West wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 1:50 pm
The way some of you talk about this potential Jimmy trade is just silly.
JIMMY BUTLER MAKES THIS TEAM MASSIVELY BETTER!!
Jimmy is heads and shoulders better than Beal. He’s a great defensive player, great passer, got that fuckin dawg in him and unlike Beal, he raises his game in the biggest moments on the biggest stage. Dude just had a 35pt, 19 reb, 10ast game like a month ago before going crazy so he can get traded.
If you don’t see how Jimmy makes this team massively better, that’s just you being down bad on this team. I know many fans are down bad on this team, I GET IT but I just don’t see it the same way as most people as to the problems of this team. To me, the problem of this team is clearly roster construction. We have the worst big man rotation in league, and our supporting cast is a bunch of guards who either are average defensive players or horrible defensive players. No one is winning like that. No one!
Jimmy helps with size and defense and Richards is a move in the right direction with the terrible center position.
A line up of Book-Jimmy-Dunn-KD-Richards is freaking great!
Elite perimeter defenders in Jimmy and Dunn
Decent rim protector in Richards
KD, who is a great help defender can now do what he does best and roam on defense.
Guys, that’s a great lineup!! Maybe swap Grayson for Dunn for shooting purposes but either way, that lineup up is nice!What are we talking about here???
Also trading for Jimmy is the path out of the apron problems, He only wants 3/110 according to Gambo, KD’s homie said KD is willing to sign a team friendly deal if they get Jimmy. Split laid it out a few days ago how we can get out of the second apron from that. How is that not a great thing? This isn’t a move to just make a move, there’s clear strategy behind it.
To recap: Jimmy move makes us much much better and puts us in much better place financially, a win-win for everyone.
Woof WOOF MOTHERFUCKERS.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:13 pm
by specialsauce
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:24 pm
I’m curious why you don’t see Butler as useful with Booker and Durant? Who would be an ideal pairing for those guys in your mind?
Jesus Christ
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:15 pm
by SunsShine
This board is certainly more open to the idea of acquiring Butler than others I’ve encountered lol.
The framework for a potential Butler deal appears to be extremely complicated. Miami has made it clear they don’t want Beal and Beal would have to approve of any destination in which he’s being sent to. The general consensus is he has one of if not the worst contract in the league, so I’m not sure which teams even have the interest to trade for him that he would also agree to be traded to. Would Miami agree to take on Beal if we were to include the 2031 first?
I sure am curious to see what unfolds these next 2-3 weeks. I also wonder what other moves get made, if any. The thought of Butler on the Suns is intriguing and if it allowed us to re-sign KD and Jimmy while also falling below the 2nd apron, then I’m here for it. I just hope it doesn’t cost us Dunn to make it happen.
Re: Jimmy Butler trade rumors
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:16 pm
by specialsauce
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:10 pm
Appreciate that WW
A top 7 of Book, KD, Jimmy, Dunn, Richards, Grayson, Royce is pretty solid. That’s not counting Tyus or Morris either…or Oso. Those top 7 would be the guys I’d expect to play in the playoffs. Another big would obviously be nice as we are still quite weak at C, but that’s a good roster. If they still can’t do anything it is still easier to blow it up because you no longer have Beal’s contract with a NTC on the books.
Nah fuck Royce
I'd fuck around with the rest of that group though