Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:18 am

None of us are saying that…it’s you can trade them this summer if it doesn’t work…you obviously can’t drag it out 3 years and expect to get anything. You only drag it out 3 years if it’s working.

I’ve still seen no one that’s against the Butler trade give me an example of what they would do. Believe me, I’ve thought plenty about a redirection…I don’t think there’s really a better way out, but please feel free to give me your thoughts, I honestly want to hear them. I’ve got no good ideas.

They just want to hold on to picks for mystical future players of unknown name or significance

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:18 am

I’ve still seen no one that’s against the Butler trade give me an example of what they would do. Believe me, I’ve thought plenty about a redirection…I don’t think there’s really a better way out, but please feel free to give me your thoughts, I honestly want to hear them. I’ve got no good ideas.

I suspect if you scroll back this very thread, you'll find several specific suggestions and proposals. I personally think we should trade either KD or Book to Houston and get most/all of our own picks back. If you really want to blow it up, which I do, I'd do something like:

- Book to HOU for mucho picks and youngs
- KD to OKC for more mucho picks and youngs
- Grayson Allen to ORL for a pick and maybe a young

Give Beal the car keys to be the tank commander. Let our own picks start us on the path to redemption.

I haven't sketched out specific trades above because I care more about the picks than the players. But you can easily come up with specific guys to get back for say Book or KD, like Dillon Brooks, Sengun, A. Thompson, or whomever. Negotiate 1-2 young guys and some salary ballast and make it work.

You don't have to agree with the approach or the desire to blow it up, but there's no lack of specific proposals, trades, plans. Feel free to scroll back and read 'em.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:26 am

I feel like I've said half a dozen times to trade KD for what you can now - likely the Rockets. Get back some combo of young players and picks with salary filler and start the retooling around Book. Dunn's a perfect complement for Book. Oso is still a solid young player you want part of the org. You have Richards to get a look at for the next year. Grayson and Royce are great vets to keep around or trade one this summer for a pick or two. If you add Jabari Smith or Tari Eason to that plus a future pick from the Rockets, you're well on your way to competing sooner than later.

I don't care about Nurk or Beal. Stretch and waive one of them.

You all can say that until you are blue in the face but that is not the direction one Mat Ishbia is going to go and we all know that.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:26 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:18 am

None of us are saying that…it’s you can trade them this summer if it doesn’t work…you obviously can’t drag it out 3 years and expect to get anything. You only drag it out 3 years if it’s working.

I’ve still seen no one that’s against the Butler trade give me an example of what they would do. Believe me, I’ve thought plenty about a redirection…I don’t think there’s really a better way out, but please feel free to give me your thoughts, I honestly want to hear them. I’ve got no good ideas.

They just want to hold on to picks for mystical future players of unknown name or significance

We don't like draft picks anymore?

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:11 am

But teams will want to trade for 39 yr old Butler and KD in 2-3 years when it doesn't work out. At least that's what they tell me.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

Go ahead, trade all our picks, we can always get them back when it doesn’t work out. Yup, no problem. Go ahead.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:44 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:26 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:18 am

None of us are saying that…it’s you can trade them this summer if it doesn’t work…you obviously can’t drag it out 3 years and expect to get anything. You only drag it out 3 years if it’s working.

I’ve still seen no one that’s against the Butler trade give me an example of what they would do. Believe me, I’ve thought plenty about a redirection…I don’t think there’s really a better way out, but please feel free to give me your thoughts, I honestly want to hear them. I’ve got no good ideas.

They just want to hold on to picks for mystical future players of unknown name or significance

We don't like draft picks anymore?

Is it new? The idea that draft picks are “mystical magical theoretical” and therefore of no value is one he’s been harping on for a while.

Also, regardless of the extension, I think Butler is poison around the league. I don't think he'll be more attractive to teams even with a reasonable contract. There will be a select few and they may not give up a whole lot if it looks like we're desperate to start over with a rebuild. KD may be a better scenario but still not great. I'd rather move him now to a team he'd want to go to and let them work out the extension.

If you guys like draft picks you can always root for the Jazz or some other bullshit organization that has no actual talent but loves the unknown. This organization moving forward is going to be above all that. They can afford to pay for talent. They're not bottom dwellers hoping to get a steal after waiting 10 years and missing 8 times on picks. Welcome to first class folks

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:26 am

I feel like I've said half a dozen times to trade KD for what you can now - likely the Rockets. Get back some combo of young players and picks with salary filler and start the retooling around Book. Dunn's a perfect complement for Book. Oso is still a solid young player you want part of the org. You have Richards to get a look at for the next year. Grayson and Royce are great vets to keep around or trade one this summer for a pick or two. If you add Jabari Smith or Tari Eason to that plus a future pick from the Rockets, you're well on your way to competing sooner than later.

I don't care about Nurk or Beal. Stretch and waive one of them.

I think that’s great in theory…is Book ok with moving Durant? I think it would be tricky to split them up. But yes, if you can trade KD for like Smith Jr, Sheppard, contracts and our 2027 pick back?

I still don’t think that team is that good, but it has more flexibility going forward…I think that ends with Booker being traded later though. I wouldn’t hate it.

Book's gotta be loyal to the org, not KD. And if a plan is laid out to him that shows we're not just dumping for lotto picks the next 5 years but reloading around him to get back to contender status in 2-3 years, I think he'll be fine.

I think you can't really have any untouchables when you're looking at a bleak future if you stand pat.

Beal is going to be next to impossible to move, so the two options that bring the most in return are trading Durant or Booker. I think if they trade one for draft choices and prospsects they might as well go all in and trade both.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:21 pm

I think you can't really have any untouchables when you're looking at a bleak future if you stand pat.

Beal is going to be next to impossible to move, so the two options that bring the most in return are trading Durant or Booker. I think if they trade one for draft choices and prosp[ects they might as well go all in and trade both.

Facts.

Saucey, you ready for Himmy???

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:21 pm

I think you can't really have any untouchables when you're looking at a bleak future if you stand pat.

Beal is going to be next to impossible to move, so the two options that bring the most in return are trading Durant or Booker. I think if they trade one for draft choices and prospsects they might as well go all in and trade both.

Ya I’m team trade none or both..and I think getting Beal out is the first step for either path.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:25 pm

Saucey, you ready for Himmy???

Ooooooofffff

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:35 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 12:21 pm

I think you can't really have any untouchables when you're looking at a bleak future if you stand pat.

Beal is going to be next to impossible to move, so the two options that bring the most in return are trading Durant or Booker. I think if they trade one for draft choices and prospsects they might as well go all in and trade both.

Ya I’m team trade none or both..and I think getting Beal out is the first step for either path.

Nah. I don't think that's your only path. I think this team has enough talent that simply trading KD for some more assets/complementary young talent can change the tide.

There are several avenues to reverse this trajectory, but standing pat is about the only thing that will guarantee the ship sinks for a few years before resurfacing. You just cannot be content letting this ride out and let KD get older and more difficult to trade for any legitimate return.

I do think Ishbia is at this point too pot committed to him that it would be an admission of a mistake if he shipped him out.

So, trade for THE MAN KNOWN AS HIMMY BUCKETS, ride the season out and see how the team looks. If it's the same trash we've trotted out for the last two years, then don't resign HIM and get under the second apron and re-tool with the freedom that brings.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:26 am

I feel like I've said half a dozen times to trade KD for what you can now - likely the Rockets. Get back some combo of young players and picks with salary filler and start the retooling around Book.

Bobby Marks posed the following deal:

Rockets get: forward Kevin Durant, center Bol Bol, guard Monte Morris, guard Damion Lee

Suns get: forward Dillon Brooks, forward Cam Whitmore, forward Jae'Sean Tate, forward Jeff Green, center Jock Landale, two first-round picks (2025, 2027; both return to Phoenix)

Houston sports radio was discussing the deal, and they were actually debating whether or not to do it, and how it would be hard to part with Dillon Brooks.

From a Phoenix perspective, I think the deal sucks. I was shocked that Reed Shepherd and/or Jabari Smith aren't included. I'm not making a deal without Jabari Smith being included.

I think it's a reality check though, that we may be exaggerating Durant's value on the trade market.

That deal is wang and I'm a big Cam Whitmore guy. Without Sheppard or Smith I don't touch it.

I don't think we'd get what we gave the Nets but KD has a ton of value especially for a team like the Rockets looking to make a jump. They're downplaying his value and talking like we're desperate to get rid of him. I also think Udoka would push for the deal. So give me one of Tari or Jabari plus Reed, Tate, Jeff Green, Adams and the 27th.

Honestly, I think Udoka may be the one to be against it and Stone may be the one who would push for it. Udoka is very serious about attitude and toughness; there is a reason why he called LeBron a b-tch. I don't know if he would be down for rocking the boat to bring in KD. I think he would be more open to doing it as a free agency move, but I have my doubts about him being on board with shaking up the team to bring in an aging, mentally soft star.

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:45 pm

I'm a big Cam Whitmore guy.

Whitmore is a very talented scorer, but he is also a me-first guy, who has been really chirping about his playing time and touches. Buyer beware.