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If you remember, INF was advocating this before he was drafted. I agreed with him on this too. He's a bit of a suped up Marion.pickle wrote:Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.
Crazy talk. Dude literally does everything well. His coaching and supporting cast is what failed him. He's already better than Marion ever was.In2ition wrote:If you remember, INF was advocating this before he was drafted. I agreed with him on this too. He's a bit of a suped up Marion.pickle wrote:Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.
Ha! That, plus Miami's picks, Chriss and Bender.specialsauce wrote:Would anyone trade Bledsoe, Warren + our pick to NO for Anthony Davis?
those are really good examples. although I tend to agree with pickle that AD seems like he needs to be either 1B, or even a solid #2 if he is going to win a championship. Which means it probably won't be in NO.ShelC wrote:No one's a winner until they are. Dirk was a soft, jump shooting, Euro you couldn't win with. KG was the guy who couldn't come thru in the 4th and took heat for passing to his teammates late in games when he was in Minny.
That's true of all big men in today's NBA. Which big man is the best player on his team, and that team is in the playoffs? Marc Gasol? The Clips might be the only team in the NBA to have success with traditional bigs right now, but I consider that a result of how good Chris Paul is at getting dudes involved.pickle wrote:Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.
Good point.ShelC wrote:No one's a winner until they are. Dirk was a soft, jump shooting, Euro you couldn't win with. KG was the guy who couldn't come thru in the 4th and took heat for passing to his teammates late in games when he was in Minny.
O_Gardino wrote:That's true of all big men in today's NBA. Which big man is the best player on his team, and that team is in the playoffs? Marc Gasol? The Clips might be the only team in the NBA to have success with traditional bigs right now, but I consider that a result of how good Chris Paul is at getting dudes involved.pickle wrote:Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.
At some point, either the L will change, or Davis will end up like Kevin Love playing a support role to perimeter players.
I think you need two very good ball handlers that also demand a lot of attention from the opposing defense to be an elite team. And I don't mean one of them as a back up/sixth man. They need to share the floor.Split T wrote:O_Gardino wrote:That's true of all big men in today's NBA. Which big man is the best player on his team, and that team is in the playoffs? Marc Gasol? The Clips might be the only team in the NBA to have success with traditional bigs right now, but I consider that a result of how good Chris Paul is at getting dudes involved.pickle wrote:Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.
At some point, either the L will change, or Davis will end up like Kevin Love playing a support role to perimeter players.
Very good point. I had a debate with a friend where I said I'd take Giannis over Anthony Davis and it's because as good as Davis is, he's still reliant upon the ball handlers on his team to an extent. Giannis is the ball handler. You need creators in the league today and Davis just isn't one.
He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.
I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.Indy wrote:He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.
I guess that is my point. He can't carry a team by himself. So he needs the FO to build the right team around him to win. That is all I meant by him not being the solution.Superbone wrote:I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.Indy wrote:He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.
Yeah, that's probably true. I guess we know it's true because he hasn't been able to do anything with that rag tag group in New Orleans yet a player like LeBron took those early Cleveland teams far. Makes me start wondering if there are any bigs that can do that. The closest example I can think of off the top of my head was Olajuwon in Houston but even he had a pretty good supporting cast.Indy wrote:I guess that is my point. He can't carry a team by himself. So he needs the FO to build the right team around him to win. That is all I meant by him not being the solution.Superbone wrote:I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.Indy wrote:He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.
It's interesting. Bigs need good guards to succeed. It's why the NBA seems to be shifting toward guard play and bigs with guard skills(Giannis) are incredibly valuable.Superbone wrote:Yeah, that's probably true. I guess we know it's true because he hasn't been able to do anything with that rag tag group in New Orleans yet a player like LeBron took those early Cleveland teams far. Makes me start wondering if there are any bigs that can do that. The closest example I can think of off the top of my head was Olajuwon in Houston but even he had a pretty good supporting cast.Indy wrote:I guess that is my point. He can't carry a team by himself. So he needs the FO to build the right team around him to win. That is all I meant by him not being the solution.Superbone wrote:I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.Indy wrote:He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.
This is why I have some hope for Bender. He clearly has some guard skills. His immediate recognition of Jones ahead of the field and his outlet for a dunk was great, his taking the ball up the court and playing a short time of pg, his drive in from the 3pt line, and his entry pass into Williams, along with his quick release and good looking stroke from the outside(although it's a bit flat and he might be using a little of his off hand in his shot that can add to it not being as consistent). This is also why I hope the Suns land the #1 or #2 pick in this draft, then develop the bigs.Split T wrote:It's interesting. Bigs need good guards to succeed. It's why the NBA seems to be shifting toward guard play and bigs with guard skills(Giannis) are incredibly valuable.Superbone wrote:Yeah, that's probably true. I guess we know it's true because he hasn't been able to do anything with that rag tag group in New Orleans yet a player like LeBron took those early Cleveland teams far. Makes me start wondering if there are any bigs that can do that. The closest example I can think of off the top of my head was Olajuwon in Houston but even he had a pretty good supporting cast.Indy wrote:I guess that is my point. He can't carry a team by himself. So he needs the FO to build the right team around him to win. That is all I meant by him not being the solution.Superbone wrote:I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.Indy wrote: He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.