Phx-Suns.Net

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 19, 2025 3:40 pm

I'd rather the Suns pursue Middleton and Portis than Butler if Beal agrees to go to Milwaukee.

Agreed, but I don't think Portis is going to be on the table.

Middleton seems like a busted asset. His health is a real problem, probably even worse than Beal's. As much as we don't like the fit for Beal on this team, that doesn't mean we should just take literally any deal to get him out of here. The only real appeal there would be that Middleton's contract is one year shorter? But that seems marginal if Middleton is completely done as a player while Beal is a decent player who's an imperfect fit.

Well not only does Middleton's contract end sooner, the annual salary is significantly less than Beal. Beal is more than just a decent player; he is an All-Star level talent. He just doesn't offer any value for the Suns. Put him on just about any other team where he doesn't play the same position as the team's best player, and he would be back to his 20+ ppg scoring.

Middleton would be exactly what we want Beal to be off of the bench.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:25 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 19, 2025 3:40 pm

I'd rather the Suns pursue Middleton and Portis than Butler if Beal agrees to go to Milwaukee.

Agreed, but I don't think Portis is going to be on the table.

I've read everyone is on the table but Giannis and Dame.

Now is Portis on the table in a deal that nets them Beal? Sure, maybe not. They should be hesitant to include him.

I was speaking strictly in terms of a Beal trade.

Out of curiosity, how many people really want Jimmy Butler in a Sun's uniform ?

Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 6:50 pm

Out of curiosity, how many people really want Jimmy Butler in a Sun's uniform ?

I think Sauce does...

I feel slightly better about it after acquiring Richards and the fact that Butler's skillset/role doesn't directly overlap with Booker and KD.

I don't feel any better about severely overpaying Jimmy Butler in the 2025 and 2026 seasons. Should be fun to read from some about how it'll still be KD's fault.

I haven't posted in this board in a while coz I tend to get emotionally invested in this team (shame on me) and the recent stretch was really hard to stomach. But I've been reading the board and posting a bit the last few days, and finally managed to catch up on this thread.

I won't beat a dead horse again. Suffice it to say I share the sentiment held by the majority here that this team is in a dire situation that doesn't seem to have a lot of means for improvement.

Having said all that, this '31 pick for 3 firsts came as a surprise, and maybe a mildly pleasant one. We can debate how much we love or hate or feel neutral about this trade, but it's done, so ... what would you do with the three new shiny picks, and what do you think the Suns might do with them?

Personally, I would be willing to give up one of them to get Butler for Beal. I think I am in the camp that Butler will help improve this team, though I'm not delusional to think that he will make us contenders. I just hold out a little hope that lightning strikes and that we somehow miraculously get back to the finals because shit happened to other teams.

If we do get that Butler deal done, I may try to trade another first rounder for 3-5 second rounders, and use 1 or 2 of them to turn Nurkic into something remotely useful for this season. Hopefully a center, but a bigger backup 4 works too.

What I think the Suns will do is probably keep the '25 first rounder and try to replicate the moderate success we enjoyed with the 24 draft, so I think we'll keep the first and second for '25 that we have, and then send both the other firsts out to facilitate the Beal for Butler trade.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 6:51 pm

Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 6:50 pm

Out of curiosity, how many people really want Jimmy Butler in a Sun's uniform ?

I think Sauce does...

I don’t, because Sauce is going to be insufferable if it happens.

On balance, it’s no. Concerns about his health/availability and personality for sure but also he is another player who doesn’t naturally shoot 3s. Does he go into the starting 5 instead of Dunn? I think that would be understandable but a shame. Or instead of Jones and have Book run point? In which case, 3-point shooting is a big worry.
I’m not convinced the positives outweigh the negatives, particularly once you factor in future money we’ll have tied up with him and draft capital spent.

I prefer a total rebuild…but I know that’s not happening, so in that case…give me Butler.

Gladiator wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:09 pm

On balance, it’s no. Concerns about his health/availability and personality for sure but also he is another player who doesn’t naturally shoot 3s. Does he go into the starting 5 instead of Dunn? I think that would be understandable but a shame. Or instead of Jones and have Book run point? In which case, 3-point shooting is a big worry.

We give up on our hopeless center rotation and start a small ball lineup with KD at 5 and Dunn at 4.

Come on, would anybody really hate that? What have we got to lose? It’s not like our rebound numbers can drop below zero.

I take that back. We’d find a way.

I used to think Butler was the best of both worlds: it would satisfy Ishbia's ego and insatiable appetite to make headlines while also clearing Beal's contract off the books/getting us under the second apron. But then word got out about the Suns' desire/intend to extend him...

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:13 pm

I used to think Butler was the best of both worlds: it would satisfy Ishbia's ego and insatiable appetite to make headlines while also clearing Beal's contract off the books/getting us under the second apron. But then word got out about the Suns' desire/intend to extend him...

And everybody (by which I mean “everybody” in the sense of people who say that all the time) expects that Ish will pay whatever price he legally can to acquire him. We pray we’re wrong.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:10 pm

I prefer a total rebuild…but I know that’s not happening, so in that case…give me Butler.

This is exactly where I'm at.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:13 pm

I used to think Butler was the best of both worlds: it would satisfy Ishbia's ego and insatiable appetite to make headlines while also clearing Beal's contract off the books/getting us under the second apron. But then word got out about the Suns' desire/intend to extend him...

Do you think the Phoenix Suns are fully aware (or could potentially be made aware) that players tend to fall off cliffs in their mid to late 30s?

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:26 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:13 pm

I used to think Butler was the best of both worlds: it would satisfy Ishbia's ego and insatiable appetite to make headlines while also clearing Beal's contract off the books/getting us under the second apron. But then word got out about the Suns' desire/intend to extend him...

Do you think the Phoenix Suns are fully aware (or could potentially be made aware) that players tend to fall off cliffs in their mid to late 30s?

They'll worry about it when it happens.

I have one question for everyone... putting aside what we think about Ishbia's willingness to light future assets on fire.

What kind of player is Butler right now?

Two years ago, when he was leading the Heat to that historic upset of the Celtics (nobody thought they had a chance against the Nuggets), he was seen as a lockdown defender who played with fire, who had great size who could abuse anyone the Celtics threw at him on defense, including calling Jrue small, and he was known to elevate his game in the post season and loved the big moments. He was also seen as a capable primary playmaker who was a good and willing passer... maybe not a primary ball handler on an every possession basis, but one who you could give the ball to and he would be known to make good basketball decisions.

Fast forward 2 years, which of those skills does he still possess and which ones have faded?

-- Defense: I assume he can still be a plus defender when he puts in the effort
-- Rebounding: I don't have a good feeling on this one
-- Playmaking: I don't think one tends to lose this ability
-- Upping his game in high pressure situations: I think the will is still there, not sure if his body can still follow suit
-- Taking big shots: I err on the side of trusting that he will make the right play in high pressure moments

Having a better handle on his on court abilities can maybe put any potential trade in a more proper framework. If some of us think that he is just washed and the only thing he brings is that fiery personality and willingness to burn the house down to its studs, then whatever trade we make, maybe even a Beal for Butler straight up will be a disaster besides salary relief. If we think he can still provide those skills to an above average level, then I am probably willing to use a pick to get this trade done.

Thoughts?