Phx-Suns.Net

INF and Indy keep bringing up busts. However, nobody thinks Simmons or Ingram will be busts. Maybe they won't be Durant or LeBron but they should be closer to the positive side of a number 1 than the negative side.

Superbone wrote:INF and Indy keep bringing up busts. However, nobody thinks Simmons or Ingram will be busts. Maybe they won't be Durant or LeBron but they should be closer to the positive side of a number 1 than the negative side.

I have no idea if they will be busts. That kind of defines a bust, though. If everyone knows they are going to suck, they aren't at the top of the board.

Are you getting Anthony Davis, Kawhi, Paul George, Durant, Westbrook, The Freak or Kristaps? Then don't trade the pick (or Booker) if it is Simmons. Same if you believe Ingram can become a great scorer (again, don't you think he is not quick enough?). I can already hear people complaining if the Suns used this pick+ to acquire flawed stars like Harden or Cousins, let alone Melo.

Just draft BPA with an eye on need, and keep rebuilding. That means you take the pick and move out the necessary pieces to give it space to grow. Say it is Hield; Knight out. Say it is Dunn; Bledsoe out. There is room at SF, PF is depleted and C is not an option at the top of this draft.

Don't try to roll it back like we did with Luol Deng. Teams get too much time to screw you.

Don't trade down. If desired, trade up using the multiple assets gathered. If absolutely pushed (say #5, Brown-Murray-Poetl BPA; you hate them), reach for somebody you positively like (Sabonis? already #7 per NBAD.net).

Split T wrote:I think Simmons/Ingram are somewhere in the Wiggins, Irving, Wall, Brand grouping of #1 picks.

I agree.

Ring_Wanted wrote:Are you getting Anthony Davis, Kawhi, Paul George, Durant, Westbrook, The Freak or Kristaps? Then don't trade the pick (or Booker) if it is Simmons. Same if you believe Ingram can become a great scorer (again, don't you think he is not quick enough?). I can already hear people complaining if the Suns used this pick+ to acquire flawed stars like Harden or Cousins, let alone Melo.

I'm more inclined to group AD with Cousins with all his injury problems. Maybe I'm nuts.

pickle wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:Are you getting Anthony Davis, Kawhi, Paul George, Durant, Westbrook, The Freak or Kristaps? Then don't trade the pick (or Booker) if it is Simmons. Same if you believe Ingram can become a great scorer (again, don't you think he is not quick enough?). I can already hear people complaining if the Suns used this pick+ to acquire flawed stars like Harden or Cousins, let alone Melo.

I'm more inclined to group AD with Cousins with all his injury problems. Maybe I'm nuts.

I think that is fair.

pickle wrote:

Split T wrote:I think Simmons/Ingram are somewhere in the Wiggins, Irving, Wall, Brand grouping of #1 picks.

I agree.

I know nothing about their future results. I'm just saying that nobody comes into a draft saying the two most coveted players will turn into Kandi.

pickle wrote:

Split T wrote:I think Simmons/Ingram are somewhere in the Wiggins, Irving, Wall, Brand grouping of #1 picks.

I agree.

That's my impression too. Others should quit comparing him to the bottom of the barrel.

Superbone wrote:

pickle wrote:

Split T wrote:I think Simmons/Ingram are somewhere in the Wiggins, Irving, Wall, Brand grouping of #1 picks.

I agree.

That's my impression too. Others should quit comparing him to the bottom of the barrel.

Nobody is saying he is the bottom of the barrel. Nobody is saying he isn't going to be a good player. But there are plenty saying that he isn't a "#1 pick" in the likes of a great player. Which is fine. I don't think most #1 picks are people you build a championship team around.

But this is all moot, because we will likely be picking 4th. Nobody is clamoring for the 4th pick in this draft. Well, except Philly for LA.

Superbone wrote:INF and Indy keep bringing up busts. However, nobody thinks Simmons or Ingram will be busts. Maybe they won't be Durant or LeBron but they should be closer to the positive side of a number 1 than the negative side.

Absolutely. If you've watched Ingram or Simmons play basketball it's pretty ridiculous to mentioned their name in the same sentence as Anthony Bennett. Maybe some people liked Bennett coming out but the guy clearly CLEARLY wasn't #1 pick worthy to anyone who had half a brain that draft. I was there people were laughing when he was selected #1.

Greg Oden is a different story. He was a bust because of injuries. A bust is a bust but the circumstances were different. I'm with Bone on this one. Who says the #1 pick has to be LBJ or Durant to be a success?

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

pickle wrote:

Split T wrote:I think Simmons/Ingram are somewhere in the Wiggins, Irving, Wall, Brand grouping of #1 picks.

I agree.

That's my impression too. Others should quit comparing him to the bottom of the barrel.

Nobody is saying he is the bottom of the barrel. Nobody is saying he isn't going to be a good player. But there are plenty saying that he isn't a "#1 pick" in the likes of a great player. Which is fine. I don't think most #1 picks are people you build a championship team around.

But this is all moot, because we will likely be picking 4th. Nobody is clamoring for the 4th pick in this draft. Well, except Philly for LA.

People are entitled to their opinions. That's fine. It's what makes a message board.

Who says the #1 pick has to be LBJ or Durant to be a success?

Nobody. Honestly, getting any above average NBA starter out of the #1 pick is a success. But that doesn't mean that it is a great pick.

Sunsfan4life wrote:

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

pickle wrote:

Split T wrote:I think Simmons/Ingram are somewhere in the Wiggins, Irving, Wall, Brand grouping of #1 picks.

I agree.

That's my impression too. Others should quit comparing him to the bottom of the barrel.

Nobody is saying he is the bottom of the barrel. Nobody is saying he isn't going to be a good player. But there are plenty saying that he isn't a "#1 pick" in the likes of a great player. Which is fine. I don't think most #1 picks are people you build a championship team around.

But this is all moot, because we will likely be picking 4th. Nobody is clamoring for the 4th pick in this draft. Well, except Philly for LA.

People are entitled to their opinions. That's fine. It's what makes a message board.

Do you see him as being an All-NBA 1st team player by his 3 or 4th season? That is what I would say makes a great #1 pick.

Indy wrote:But this is all moot, because we will likely be picking 4th. Nobody is clamoring for the 4th pick in this draft. Well, except Philly for LA.

Sadly, this.

Do you say that because you think Simmons is a guaranteed amazing player like KD, AD, Curry, LBJ, etc?

Nothing is guaranteed and I don't know if he'll be that good but I think Simmons has the talent to be the best prospect since AD. I think Ingram has the potential to be a multi time all-star. You can never forecast injuries and what goes on once a 19 yr old gets a ton of money as a fan.

I also think the #3 pick is sucha crap shoot and the talent level drops dramatically after 1-2 that trading down for multiple picks isn't worth it if we were to go that route.

Sunsfan4life wrote:

Do you say that because you think Simmons is a guaranteed amazing player like KD, AD, Curry, LBJ, etc?

Nothing is guaranteed and I don't know if he'll be that good but I think Simmons has the talent to be the best prospect since AD. I think Ingram has the potential to be a multi time all-star. You can never forecast injuries and what goes on once a 19 yr old gets a ton of money as a fan.

I also think the #3 pick is such a crap shoot and the talent level drops dramatically after 1-2 that trading down for multiple picks isn't worth it if we were to go that route.

I understand you can't predict the future, but that is the point of the draft. You need to be able to predict that Oden isn't going to hold up.

On Ingram: As for the multi-time all-star, I don't put a lot of stock in that. Popular players on popular teams make All-star appearances, not necessarily great players. I mean, how many all-star games did Steve Francis make?

On Simmons: Saying he is the best prospect since AD is pretty high praise. I hope that is true for him.

And again, we are probably all discussing this for nothing, because we are very unlikely to move into the top 2. And if we aren't there, nearly everyone is saying there aren't any game-changing players left. We are hoping we get a future rotation player.

Indy wrote:
Do you see him as being an All-NBA 1st team player by his 3 or 4th season? That is what I would say makes a great #1 pick.

If I was a betting man I'd say yes. My biggest concern with Big Ben is his lack of assertiveness and ability to be aloof down the stretch once that whole thing happened with him being benched due to grades. That could be an 18yr old being an 18yr old or something more. As fans, it's tough to know someones character. But ALL-NBA selections are a tough way to gage someones success because alot of times if guys are close they'll give it to the guy who's team is better.

Here's a good question for you. If I told you Ingram would have a career similar to Shawn Marion's, would you take him #1?

Sunsfan4life wrote:

Indy wrote:
Do you see him as being an All-NBA 1st team player by his 3 or 4th season? That is what I would say makes a great #1 pick.

If I was a betting man I'd say yes. My biggest concern with Big Ben is his lack of assertiveness and ability to be aloof down the stretch once that whole thing happened with him being benched due to grades. That could be an 18yr old being an 18yr old or something more. As fans, it's tough to know someones character. But ALL-NBA selections are a tough way to gage someones success because alot of times if guys are close they'll give it to the guy who's team is better.

Here's a good question for you. If I told you Ingram would have a career similar to Shawn Marion's, would you take him #1?

In this draft, yes. But if anyone told you Shawn Marion was the number one pick in the draft, and the best player in the draft, it would be a disappointing draft class.

On Ingram: As for the multi-time all-star, I don't put a lot of stock in that. Popular players on popular teams make All-star appearances, not necessarily great players. I mean, how many all-star games did Steve Francis make?

Agreed. I can say the same thing about "ALL-NBA" selections though. It can be based on team success.

On Simmons: Saying he is the best prospect since AD is pretty high praise. I hope that is true for him.

I like Simmons talent alot. It's there. It's there to be the #1 guy on a contending team. It's the between the ears that worries me a bit. I think Ingram may be the safer pick, but I think Ben has the most potential to be a superstar.

And again, we are probably all discussing this for nothing, because we are very unlikely to move into the top 2. And if we aren't there, nearly everyone is saying there aren't any game-changing players left. We are hoping we get a future rotation player

Positive thoughts Indy.....Positive thoughts.

Sunsfan4life wrote:
Positive thoughts Indy.....Positive thoughts.

I am a Suns fan and a Dolphins fan... the positive thoughts have been beat out of me over the last several years.