Phx-Suns.Net

Superbone wrote:OK, I'm firmly on the Jackson bandwagon. My question to you all is, who do we pick if Fultz, Ball, and Jackson are all off the board? Is there any chance we take Fox?

I thought we were contractually obligated to take any Kentucky guard that is on the board. No?

I think Tatum is a really good prospect and he's more than a full year younger than Jackson (which is a big deal when projecting college players). I understand the fit issues, but I think he'd be my pick if Jackson's off the table. Take him and figure out the TJ Warren stuff later. His 3pt % didn't stand out, but his 85% free throw shooting is a much better indicator of his ability to become a good 3 point shooter.

I'm leaning fox. I think he's a special talent and might just be special enough to get management to move Bledsoe. Maybe that's just wishful thinking though. Isaac is my other choice, but I think that might make finding minutes for him and bender a little tricky.

Can someone explain the hype for Isaac? I know he was a guard who went through a massive growth spurt, but I really havent seen that translate on the court. I dont know what he offers that we dont already have in Bender.

Per 40 numbers for Isaac:

18.3 points, 12 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.8 steals, 2.3 blocks and he shot 51% overall, 35% from 3, and 78% from the line.

I don't know how you can say he didn't translate on the court. ESPN's stat nerds have him ranked as the best prospect.

As far as comparing to bender. Isaac is a better rebounder, better rim protector, better athlete, and better shooter.

Frankly, I like Isaac this year better than I liked either Bender or Chriss last year.

As for Fox, I'm in the minority on thinking that he's a Blesoesque passer and shooter. Much quicker than Bled, but not as strong. I just don't see him as a star.

O_Gardino wrote:Frankly, I like Isaac this year better than I liked either Bender or Chriss last year.

Agreed. I think Bender and Chriss would both fall out of the top 10 in this draft.

O_Gardino wrote:As for Fox, I'm in the minority on thinking that he's a Blesoesque passer and shooter. Much quicker than Bled, but not as strong. I just don't see him as a star.

I don't think he reaches john wall level, but i think he could be on the mike Conley level. So he might not be much better than Bled, but Bled is pretty good and fox fits our timeframe much better. We can then move Bled for another piece. Still prefer to just take Jackson as he fits perfectly and effects only Warren. I think Warren is probably suited more for a bench role anyways.

Fox's shooting just seems so far away. And as aggressive and fast as he is, he doesn't have Westbrook's size or athleticism to be a devastating finisher. I also don't think he's that special as a distributor.

Shabazz wrote:Fox's shooting just seems so far away. And as aggressive and fast as he is, he doesn't have Westbrook's size or athleticism to be a devastating finisher. I also don't think he's that special as a distributor.

I used to be really worried about his shot, but he's got good form and he's actually pretty good off the dribble from mid range. The 3 pt shot has some ways to go, but he did get better every month. He even shot 44% from 3 in march. But, the shot isn't broken. He probably won't ever be in the upper class of pg shooters(curry, Kyrie, Lowry, Kemba, Paul) but I think he'll be ok(Bled, Westbrook, wall)

Split T wrote:Per 40 numbers for Isaac:

18.3 points, 12 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.8 steals, 2.3 blocks and he shot 51% overall, 35% from 3, and 78% from the line.

I don't know how you can say he didn't translate on the court. ESPN's stat nerds have him ranked as the best prospect.

As far as comparing to bender. Isaac is a better rebounder, better rim protector, better athlete, and better shooter.

Nobody plays 40mpg. Those same nerds have Harry Giles who was by all accounts useless this year, number 6 and Tony Bradley number 8. No thanks. His play on the court from what I've seen, was largely unimpressive. He's also skinnier than Bender so I dont think that he will make any sort of meaningful contribution next year, which would be a bummer. Especially after seeing last years top pick do nothing because he was a twig.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

Split T wrote:Per 40 numbers for Isaac:

18.3 points, 12 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.8 steals, 2.3 blocks and he shot 51% overall, 35% from 3, and 78% from the line.

I don't know how you can say he didn't translate on the court. ESPN's stat nerds have him ranked as the best prospect.

As far as comparing to bender. Isaac is a better rebounder, better rim protector, better athlete, and better shooter.

Nobody plays 40mpg. Those same nerds have Harry Giles who was by all accounts useless this year, number 6 and Tony Bradley number 8. No thanks. His play on the court from what I've seen, was largely unimpressive. He's also skinnier than Bender so I dont think that he will make any sort of meaningful contribution next year, which would be a bummer. Especially after seeing last years top pick do nothing because he was a twig.

I just use the per 40 numbers because it makes it easier to compare. And I think you're just expecting something out of him that he's not if you can't find anything to be impressed with.

Isaac was 6'11, skinny and could shoot in high school, so naturally everyone throws out a Kevin Durant comparison. But that's just unfair to him. He's not Brandon Ingram either, the other comparison people love. Both those guys are quite a bit better creating off the dribble. If you're watching Isaac and expecting him to make plays off the dribble, then yes, you'll be disappointed.

I envision Issac as a stretch 4/5 in an ibaka like role. He'll protect the rim, can switch ball screens effectively, and stretch the floor. He needs to get a lot stronger, but when he does, he'll be dangerous finishing around the rim as well. And he does have enough ball skills that if you ignore him or cover him with a flat footed stiff, he'll make a play on you.

If Jackson is gone, we probably have to take Fox (BPA) and then figure out what to do from there. That might mean trading him, even trading down for another prospect we like plus other assets. Or it might mean keeping him and figuring out how the heck to use him.

I can't totally figure what Philly will do. Everybody says they need a PG, but their MO for years has been to take BPA and let everything work itself out. That was why they had like 7 young centers. But maybe they'll decide that Fox is the BPA as well as being the position of need for them? The one variable I can't figure is, do they want to run Simmons as a Point Forward? If so, would they maybe want to run him with a guy like Jackson in a small lineup? I got the sense that this might not work very well with their other big men pieces like Saric and Embiid, but I don't have a great feel for that team. They currently run McConnell at the point, but a guy like Fox would presumably be a big upgrade.

My current gut thinking says they talk themselves into Fox as BPA and take him, and that we get Jackson or whichever forward prospect we covet most at #4. I could see an outside chance that one of these other players like Tatum or Monk comes in and really wows us, so we'll have to wait and see.

I know we don't all agree 100% on this, but in general I have a lot of faith in our FO to bring in young guys and make a smart and savvy draft pick. I approve of most of the draft-day decisions they have made, either at the time or with a bit of hindsight.

Split T wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:As for Fox, I'm in the minority on thinking that he's a Blesoesque passer and shooter. Much quicker than Bled, but not as strong. I just don't see him as a star.

I don't think he reaches john wall level, but i think he could be on the mike Conley level. So he might not be much better than Bled, but Bled is pretty good and fox fits our timeframe much better. We can then move Bled for another piece. Still prefer to just take Jackson as he fits perfectly and effects only Warren. I think Warren is probably suited more for a bench role anyways.

Agree with that. If Jackson is available, I would probably just take him.

But if it's Fox, I might look for an opportunity to move him for 2 pieces. I'd rather have Fox or two of Isaac/Ntilik/Monk. Or maybe you use Fox to trade down and dump Knight. Maybe we trade #4 + knight for #6 plus Mario Hezonja. Something. If a trade like that could happen, I would be very tempted. It's not that I don't like Fox, but I do like several guys who might go later, and I'd consider gambling on 2 pieces with high upside.

I'm also leaning Fox and would love to find a way to somehow pick up Isaac up too, even if they have to move Bledsoe. I think Isaac, if he can truly play the 3 would be a great counter to the tall long wings that are showing up around the league.

Split T wrote:I envision Issac as a stretch 4/5 in an ibaka like role. He'll protect the rim, can switch ball screens effectively, and stretch the floor. He needs to get a lot stronger, but when he does, he'll be dangerous finishing around the rim as well. And he does have enough ball skills that if you ignore him or cover him with a flat footed stiff, he'll make a play on you.

This exactly.

In2ition wrote:I'm also leaning Fox and would love to find a way to somehow pick up Isaac up too, even if they have to move Bledsoe. I think Isaac, if he can truly play the 3 would be a great counter to the tall long wings that are showing up around the league.

Are you cool with another 20 win season next year?

Fox-Booker-Isaac-Chriss-Chandler/Bender ain't winning jack squat for at least 2 more years. Would be hella fun to watch though.

carey wrote:

In2ition wrote:I'm also leaning Fox and would love to find a way to somehow pick up Isaac up too, even if they have to move Bledsoe. I think Isaac, if he can truly play the 3 would be a great counter to the tall long wings that are showing up around the league.

Are you cool with another 20 win season next year?

Fox-Booker-Isaac-Chriss-Chandler/Bender ain't winning jack squat for at least 2 more years. Would be hella fun to watch though.

I''d be ok with it, but would hope that the FO figures out how to manage Bled, Knight, and Warren correctly.

I'd almost be willing to trade out of this draft, trade Bledsoe away for something great and go with Knight as the starter to build his value up again(to eventually trade him away). I know this is crazy talk though.

carey wrote:

In2ition wrote:I'm also leaning Fox and would love to find a way to somehow pick up Isaac up too, even if they have to move Bledsoe. I think Isaac, if he can truly play the 3 would be a great counter to the tall long wings that are showing up around the league.

Are you cool with another 20 win season next year?

Fox-Booker-Isaac-Chriss-Chandler/Bender ain't winning jack squat for at least 2 more years. Would be hella fun to watch though.

I am. I'd rather gamble on guys who might be great than take a safe player with lower upside.