Phx-Suns.Net

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:19 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:47 am

Indy wrote:

Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:25 am

gosuns wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:30 am

I prefered Doncic or trading down for Bamba over drafting Ayton. Ayton to me is a B+ at best.

So you prefer the next Clint Capela (Bamba) over the next Embiid (Ayton) ?

That is crazy Gene.

Why?

To matter of factly state Ayton is the next Embiid. Or the Bamba is the next Capela.

I didn't perceive it that way. I read it as they will be those kinds of players. Maybe better, maybe worse. We don't know yet.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:23 pm

The Sose has spoken!

Ayton is already more fundamentally sound on offense than Amar'e. Unfortunately, he might be as bad defensively. I'm hoping he can at least become a solid interior defender, where he can learn to react quickly enough to defend the basket with his size. One of our best defensive seasons came when Kurt Thomas was our 5. He had no physical gifts but knew how defend the paint, so it's not all about measureables.

My hope is that Ayton will learn to be a monster on defense. He still has a lot to learn but has all the tools. He mostly looks to be out of position in most of the college film I've seen. I'm hoping he and Kokoskov and staff will be a match made in heaven.

Ayton is already more fundamentally sound on offense than Amar'e.

Than rookie Amare? Or veteran Amare? Amare grew to have an extremely consistent and smooth mid-range jumper to go along with his excellent scoring around the basket. Ayton has some skills Amare doesn't have, but I don't want to underrepresent how excellent Amare was offensively. Amare didn't have a 3-point shot, and he didn't have great post moves, but he was a phenomenal scorer once he had a few years to grow and improve his game. And his athleticism prior to injury was otherworldly.

If wed just fed Amare more we would hsve got past SA the first time ...well before he had to sit anyways..he was an unstoppable offensive beast

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Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:05 pm

TheOriginalOriginal wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:48 pm

Embiid > Amare

Just sayin...

At this point in their respective careers, absolutely. It isn't close.

Are you sure? Amare came out of highschool and had his breakthrough at the end of his second season after we traded Marbury. Embiid vs Celtics vs Amare vs Spurs... Don’t you remember Amare before his first knee surgery?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:32 pm

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:23 pm

The Sose has spoken!

Ayton is already more fundamentally sound on offense than Amar'e. Unfortunately, he might be as bad defensively. I'm hoping he can at least become a solid interior defender, where he can learn to react quickly enough to defend the basket with his size. One of our best defensive seasons came when Kurt Thomas was our 5. He had no physical gifts but knew how defend the paint, so it's not all about measureables.

My hope is that Ayton will learn to be a monster on defense. He still has a lot to learn but has all the tools. He mostly looks to be out of position in most of the college film I've seen. I'm hoping he and Kokoskov and staff will be a match made in heaven.

I'm very interested to see just how much of that was because he was literally played out of position. Sean Miller is hardly a good coach, so I've got high hopes for Ayton on the defensive end, he's big, strong and athletic, there is no reason he shouldnt be a good defender.

Amar'es jumpshot was automatic from the elbow and pick and pop situations. He had great hands and a great feel around the hoop. But he couldn't play with his back to the basket. had little to no feel in the post, no real awareness once he put the ball on the floor and almost never used his left hand. He got by on athleticism mostly. Ayton has some back to the basket moves, has a similar touch on his shot as Amar'e and has show. some impressive dribble drive ability as well.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:08 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:32 pm

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:23 pm

The Sose has spoken!

Ayton is already more fundamentally sound on offense than Amar'e. Unfortunately, he might be as bad defensively. I'm hoping he can at least become a solid interior defender, where he can learn to react quickly enough to defend the basket with his size. One of our best defensive seasons came when Kurt Thomas was our 5. He had no physical gifts but knew how defend the paint, so it's not all about measureables.

My hope is that Ayton will learn to be a monster on defense. He still has a lot to learn but has all the tools. He mostly looks to be out of position in most of the college film I've seen. I'm hoping he and Kokoskov and staff will be a match made in heaven.

I'm very interested to see just how much of that was because he was literally played out of position. Sean Miller is hardly a good coach, so I've got high hopes for Ayton on the defensive end, he's big, strong and athletic, there is no reason he shouldnt be a good defender.

Agreed. At this point, I'm willing to let go of my doubts for the next few months and hope for the best--that he will take the challenges he heard about during the draft to heart and become a better defender.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:23 pm

The Sose has spoken!

Ayton is already more fundamentally sound on offense than Amar'e. Unfortunately, he might be as bad defensively. I'm hoping he can at least become a solid interior defender, where he can learn to react quickly enough to defend the basket with his size. One of our best defensive seasons came when Kurt Thomas was our 5. He had no physical gifts but knew how defend the paint, so it's not all about measureables.

I am still pissed about us giving away 2 first round picks for someone to take our best defender away from us. Blech. That team was a really good defensive team when he was here.

Also... Nash + Amare > Simmons + Embiid in my opinion. But Simmons and Embiid obviously haven’t peaked yet.

Where would you rank Booker + Ayton? Can we even consider them since Booker is not a PG.

gosuns wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:19 pm

Also... Nash + Amare > Simmons + Embiid in my opinion. But Simmons and Embiid obviously haven’t peaked yet.

Where would you rank Booker + Ayton? Can we even consider them since Booker is not a PG.

I would wait until I have seen them play together before comparing them. Let's hope it is the best pairing of any duo ever!

Except the part about being able to catch the ball off the pick and roll and finish. The guy hasn't even played a game in the league yet. You can say something like his post moves seem better but even then Len looked good in the post in highlights.

This board has always had a weird obsession with discounting Amare. Pre injury he was an absolute monster. Just dunking on everyone. This was straight out of high school as well.

Amare had his issues. His defense was awful and the weird things he would say when trying to pump up the guys showed very little awareness. On offense though he was insane.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:05 pm

TheOriginalOriginal wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:48 pm

Embiid > Amare

Just sayin...

At this point in their respective careers, absolutely. It isn't close.

What even?

Amare had already halped the Suns get deep in the playoffs, had scored much much better than Embiid does, and had been mostly healthy up until his 4th season. Embiid is a better passer, more nuances scorer, and better positional defender, but he hasn't even had one healthy season yet and he doesn't impose his will in offense like STAT did.

Please don't forget Amare's 30 ppg on .539 shooting in a deep playoff run for us one year younger than Embiid's first playoff run. Give me 22 year old Amare over 22 year old Embiid every day of the week.

EDC wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:34 pm

Except the part about being able to catch the ball off the pick and roll and finish. The guy hasn't even played a game in the league yet. You can say something like his post moves seem better but even then Len looked good in the post in highlights.

This board has always had a weird obsession with discounting Amare. Pre injury he was an absolute monster. Just dunking on everyone. This was straight out of high school as well.

Amare had his issues. His defense was awful and the weird things he would say when trying to pump up the guys showed very little awareness. On offense though he was insane.

I'm with you. Amare was a monster coming out of high school. I remember going to the pro-am games in Longbeach before his first season with the Suns and being amazed.

Wasn't Amare older than Ayton or Embiid coming out of highschool? I thought I remembered him being 20, because he had gone to 3 high schools.

Gimme the 7'1" monster DPOY candidate who shoots 3's, can kill you in the post and from the elbow over the guy who was a better scorer and well, not much else. Keep in mind that Embiid does what he does in less than 30 mpg. Its insane. Amare was also spoon-fed buckets by Nash, he was pretty alright too. Simmons is good, but he ain't Nash.

Amare was one of my favorites, him dippin' on the Kandi man will forever be an all-timer for me, but Embiid is just a different type of animal.

jonh wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:09 pm

Wasn't Amare older than Ayton or Embiid coming out of highschool? I thought I remembered him being 20, because he had gone to 3 high schools.

Yeah, he was 20 as a rookie IIRC

gosuns wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:03 pm

Uncle_Gene wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:25 am

gosuns wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:30 am

I prefered Doncic or trading down for Bamba over drafting Ayton. Ayton to me is a B+ at best.

So you prefer the next Clint Capela (Bamba) over the next Embiid (Ayton) ?

I actually think Ayton could be better and more stable than Embiid. Embiid looks flashy, but his contribution to winning is, in my opinion, overrated. I saw what the Sixers did without Embiid. I believe the Sixers offense was equal with him sitting. Also i value interior defense more than post offense. And Bamba would have been much cheaper than Capela. Plus Bamba has the potential to be much better than Capela. But as anyone else here I could be wrong. I’m not a basketball guru.

Bball-ref is great for this. In the regular season their Offensive rating was much better when Embiid played, but it was the other way around in the playoffs when his post-ups were killing them. As far as the contribution to winning goes, even in the playoffs their net rating was better with Embiid, because he's a great defender. Even last season when the Sixers were still terrible they had a positive net rating when Embiid played.
I'm curious, what do you think Ayton will do better than Embiid?

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:04 am

Someone made a good point regarding the MIA pick in 2021 being part of the trade we made. You don't bank on the potential of that being a good pick, which would need a season or two anyways to develop while letting Booker age another 4-5 years. You need to take advantage of having him here, having him happy and having him on a winning team. We need to do what we need to do to get a competitive and good team rolling today, not focus on 2021.

I get the idea of getting busy now and turning the franchise around in order to protect against developing a culture of losing but all of that is not enough reason for me to not put at least some sort of protection on the pick or package it with a Chriss for Fultz swap or something. Be creative but don't pay so much more than market value, please. To me that was unneccesay short-term thinking.

Got to admit tough that I am going through a pretty rough patch in life right now so it might be me being extremely pessimistic and a rather negative person overall. So I am sorry for that. I would actually hate to be right and I am more than ever rooting for all of our new guys to make me eat my words.

Go Suns!

Speaking of which Fultz supposedly available..id tske that for a future first and some Chris or Warren

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