Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am

I’m not sure what you’re seeing, but I’m not seeing the same thing.

Okay. Make a point to watch him specifically on the defensive end tonight. You’ll see him reach and then his man will blow by him over and over again.

I think your frustration is misdirected. Kelly's not the problem.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:22 pm

I think your frustration is misdirected. Kelly's not the problem.

It's PJ Tucker... no, it's Mike James... no it's...

Somebody has gotta irritate Saucy. It just Oubre's turn and Saucy is going to laser focus in on every mistake he makes.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:03 pm

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:22 pm

I think your frustration is misdirected. Kelly's not the problem.

It's PJ Tucker... no, it's Mike James... no it's...

Somebody has gotta irritate Saucy. It just Oubre's turn and Saucy is going to laser focus in on every mistake he makes.

I’m always going to be hard on players who don’t play their role well.

We’ve all agreed Kelly isn’t going to be an effective option 2 to Devin’s option 1. If he’s not going to be a prolific scorer, then he needs to shore up the weaknesses of Ayton and Booker. If he’s not doing that, he’s not right for this team. We’re trying to build a unit, not a collection of redundant parts. The common trait PJ, Kelly and Mike James all shared? Playing outside of their roles.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:09 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:03 pm

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:22 pm

I think your frustration is misdirected. Kelly's not the problem.

It's PJ Tucker... no, it's Mike James... no it's...

Somebody has gotta irritate Saucy. It just Oubre's turn and Saucy is going to laser focus in on every mistake he makes.

I’m always going to be hard on players who don’t play their role well.

We’ve all agreed Kelly isn’t going to be an effective option 2 to Devin’s option 1. If he’s not going to be a prolific scorer, then he needs to shore up the weaknesses of Ayton and Booker. If he’s not doing that, he’s not right for this team. We’re trying to build a unit, not a collection of redundant parts. The common trait PJ, Kelly and Mike James all shared? Playing outside of their roles.

But you're discounting his prime time clutch skills. They were on display in Mexico and he single-handedly won us the Charlotte game. How many times has he hit big shots at the end of close ball games? How many big defensive plays? Blocks? The dude has got heart.

He may not be consistent but he is a huge part of this team. He has brought swagger to the Valley.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:06 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am

I’m not sure what you’re seeing, but I’m not seeing the same thing.

Okay. Make a point to watch him specifically on the defensive end tonight. You’ll see him reach and then his man will blow by him over and over again.

Not sure I can watch tonight, but I’ll look for it in the future. Though I wouldn’t necessarily equate reaching with laziness. It may not be smart defense, but he’s not doing it because he’s lazy, he’s doing it because he’s trying to make a play. His reaching, his ball watching, his jumping passing lanes, he does that to get steals, blocks, deflections, which he gets a lot of. I’d call it risky, I wouldn’t call it lazy.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:43 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:06 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am

I’m not sure what you’re seeing, but I’m not seeing the same thing.

Okay. Make a point to watch him specifically on the defensive end tonight. You’ll see him reach and then his man will blow by him over and over again.

Not sure I can watch tonight, but I’ll look for it in the future. Though I wouldn’t necessarily equate reaching with laziness. It may not be smart defense, but he’s not doing it because he’s lazy, he’s doing it because he’s trying to make a play. His reaching, his ball watching, his jumping passing lanes, he does that to get steals, blocks, deflections, which he gets a lot of. I’d call it risky, I wouldn’t call it lazy.

Disagree. People who play D with their hands are lazy. They don’t want to use the energy to move their feet, so they stay flat footed and reach instead. Leads to steals, also to getting blown by a LOT. I would take him halving his steals any day of the week if it meant he focused more on playing fundamental D. But he won’t do that, because he wants the flash plays.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:14 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:09 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:03 pm

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:22 pm

I think your frustration is misdirected. Kelly's not the problem.

It's PJ Tucker... no, it's Mike James... no it's...

Somebody has gotta irritate Saucy. It just Oubre's turn and Saucy is going to laser focus in on every mistake he makes.

I’m always going to be hard on players who don’t play their role well.

We’ve all agreed Kelly isn’t going to be an effective option 2 to Devin’s option 1. If he’s not going to be a prolific scorer, then he needs to shore up the weaknesses of Ayton and Booker. If he’s not doing that, he’s not right for this team. We’re trying to build a unit, not a collection of redundant parts. The common trait PJ, Kelly and Mike James all shared? Playing outside of their roles.

But you're discounting his prime time clutch skills. They were on display in Mexico and he single-handedly won us the Charlotte game. How many times has he hit big shots at the end of close ball games? How many big defensive plays? Blocks? The dude has got heart.

He may not be consistent but he is a huge part of this team. He has brought swagger to the Valley.

I’ll take wins over “swagger.”

If he would play more level headed and consistent, we wouldn’t be in those situations to begin with. He was like 3-15 before he hit that 3 against San Antonio. He’s had how many poor shooting games? His defense has consistently been a liability. It’s so refreshing when we turn to the bench mob. Having Kaminsky and Saric as the big men behind him don’t help, but he lets his man past him almost every time they touch the ball and decide to drive.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:55 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:43 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:06 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:55 am

I’m not sure what you’re seeing, but I’m not seeing the same thing.

Okay. Make a point to watch him specifically on the defensive end tonight. You’ll see him reach and then his man will blow by him over and over again.

Not sure I can watch tonight, but I’ll look for it in the future. Though I wouldn’t necessarily equate reaching with laziness. It may not be smart defense, but he’s not doing it because he’s lazy, he’s doing it because he’s trying to make a play. His reaching, his ball watching, his jumping passing lanes, he does that to get steals, blocks, deflections, which he gets a lot of. I’d call it risky, I wouldn’t call it lazy.

Disagree. People who play D with their hands are lazy. They don’t want to use the energy to move their feet, so they stay flat footed and reach instead. Leads to steals, also to getting blown by a LOT. I would take him halving his steals any day of the week if it meant he focused more on playing fundamental D. But he won’t do that, because he wants the flash plays.

I still don’t see how you’re describing laziness, you assume it’s laziness, but you really have no idea why Oubre plays the way he does. Nothing else about Oubre suggests he’s lazy. He’s one of our highest energy guys.

Why is he considered high energy? Because he does pushups? Because he does the moshpit? He averaged 6 rebounds per 36 last year, behind the likes of James Harden, Evan Turner, Doncic, Pat Bev, Gordon Hayward. So he’s not high energy in the sense of rebounds.

He takes the ball to the rim with tunnel vision that rivals TJ Warren and Josh Jackson. He has a higher steal rate, but that’s at the expense of a bunch of blow bys. It’s fake energy

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:02 pm

Why is he considered high energy? Because he does pushups? Because he does the moshpit? He averaged 6 rebounds per 36 last year, behind the likes of James Harden, Evan Turner, Doncic, Pat Bev, Gordon Hayward. So he’s not high energy in the sense of rebounds.

He takes the ball to the rim with tunnel vision that rivals TJ Warren and Josh Jackson. He has a higher steal rate, but that’s at the expense of a bunch of blow bys. It’s fake energy

We must be watching different players. Oubre doesn't always make the perfect play, but he plays with energy and fires up his teammates and the crowd. He doesn't have a super high bball IQ but he plays hard and has good athleticism. His defense is pretty decent overall, and while he's not a deadly shooter, he does seem to make them in "rhythm" often when we need a basket. As for tunnel vision, TJ Warren was really, really bad in that respect, and while Oubre isn't an awesome passer, he seems to play more in the flow of the offense and not be a ball-stopper. I don't think Oubre is a stellar player, but he's well liked and brings a certain camaraderie and attitude to the locker room that I like. Overall I think you're being too hard on the guy. Not an all-star SF, but he does a lot of things well that you are dismissing or misjudging. I don't mind him here on the contract and money that we gave him.

Kelly Oubre leads the suns in deflections and is top 10 in the nba in deflections. He also leads the suns in loose balls recovered and is top 30 in the nba. That just doesn’t say lazy to me.

Did you see his lazy 4 point play at the end of the Blazers game?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:47 pm

Did you see his lazy 4 point play at the end of the Blazers game?

It was a great shot.

He took some bad shots at the rim right before that thinking over and over again that he could score on Whiteside. But it was certainly a clutch shot.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:52 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:47 pm

Did you see his lazy 4 point play at the end of the Blazers game?

It was a great shot.

He took some bad shots at the rim right before that thinking over and over again that he could score on Whiteside. But it was certainly a clutch shot.

He’s definitely clutch. But yeah, he also shouldn’t have been forcing those shots against a great shot blocker.

Democritus wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:57 pm

I guess a three game losing streak is coming. Hope I'm wrong though.

I wasn't

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:47 pm

Kelly Oubre leads the suns in deflections and is top 10 in the nba in deflections. He also leads the suns in loose balls recovered and is top 30 in the nba. That just doesn’t say lazy to me.

This. His effort isn't always well-placed, but it is there as much as anyone on this team. There are plenty of ways Kelly can get better, but we are getting the 15M worth so far this year.

Totally fine with Oubre. Nobody is perfect. He brings more energy than anyone else and makes things happen at the end of games that turn sure defeats into a chance at victory.