Phx-Suns.Net

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:31 am

Racist!

Dude’s averaging 24, 15, 5 / 36 @ 22.2 PER

DA is 20, 13, 2 / 36 @ 22.5 PER

You don’t pay double for player number 2.

Not sure where you are getting those numbers for Sabonis, unless you are looking at his 1 game in SAC. His per 36 numbers this season are 19.7/12.6/5.2 and 22.8 PER. But per 36 aren't meaningful. I mean McGee is at 22/16 but that doesn't put him anywhere near the same league as the other guys.

Yeah I’m looking at his Sac stats .. it’s 3am in Sydney, I fell asleep for what I thought would be an hour at 6.30pm yesterday but woke up at midnight…TF for the internet.

Anyway, the point remains that you don’t pay double for ayton what you would for Sabonis - 5.5 assists / 36 for the big man is very good.

5.2, lol

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:29 am

Yeah I’m looking at his Sac stats .. it’s 3am in Sydney, I fell asleep for what I thought would be an hour at 6.30pm yesterday but woke up at midnight…TF for the internet.

Anyway, the point remains that you don’t pay double for ayton what you would for Sabonis - 5.5 assists / 36 for the big man is very good.

I like Sabonis, but those stats don't paint a very clear picture of the fact that Sabas is a bit of a liability on defense, while Ayton is a defensive anchor and can defend even the league's biggest monsters like Giannis and Jokic and Embiid about as well as anybody in the league. When you factor in the defensive end of the floor, it is absolutely possible that Ayton is worth double what a largely offense-only big like Sabonis is worth.

Ayton is a max player. Pay the man.

The other thing about Sabonis is, I'm not sure you can actually build an elite 2022 team around him. The conventional wisdom nowadays is that you basically need four 3-point threats on the floor with one big man / defender / rebounder / P&R man. Sabonis can't hit 3s nor defend the rim, so you would have to pair him with a center who can not only protect the rim / defend but also hit 3s (!). That's hard to find. Turner is about as good as you're going to get on that score, and the Pacers couldn't make it work. I actually think it is very hard to come up with a lineup that will mask Sabonis's deficiencies.

Ayton by contrast does everything you want from a center, and you can put a bunch of smaller guys around him and have an elite lineup. Ayton is not a good distance shooter but is an elite defender, so you can make your "4" man be a Crowder / Craig type who is not an elite rebounder and can mostly stay out on the perimeter on offense. That's the path to a great offense IMO, when even your PF is a 3-point threat.

We're using points, rebounds and assists to determine a player's worth and value to a team?

I think you could build an elite team around Sabonis at the 5. Sure it’s probably going to be mostly an offensive juggernaut, but you could still be ok defensively.

I think our team flipping Ayton for Sabonis would quite possibly the best offense in the league(we are already 3rd). Throw someone like Jaren Jackson Jr, Jonathan Isaac(healthy), Evan Mobley at the 4 in place of Crowder and I think you’d have the best team in the league.

Torrey back with his rare scenarios
First the eligible for a ring either way in the Finals
Now this fun fact

Other Sports having our star duo pass through

bajanguy008 wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:52 pm

Other Sports having our star duo pass through

Smh, and no surprise it wasn't just the two of them but another 'Team' outing....
These guys

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:48 am

We're using points, rebounds and assists to determine a player's worth and value to a team?

Points, rebounds, assists + $'s.

Sabonis, McGee, Ayton when he was out and we were still winning; all signs pointing towards Ayton not being worth a max to us.

This team to me (being untouchables, and good players available on good value contracts) is:

- Paul, ($28.4m)
- Booker ($33.8m)
- Bridges ($21.0m)
- Payne ($6.0m)
- McGee (~$6.0m)
- Johnson (~$18.0m)*

Adding that up ($113.2m) and with the cap projected next year at $121m and luxury tax at $147m, that leaves $8m / $34m in space to sign Ayton and the rest of the team .. that doesn't sound feasible unless I'm missing something.

*Maybe Johnson is the one to go to clear space for Ayton if we insist on keeping Ayton - which I'd be okay with so long as we don't max Ayton.

So defense doesn't count at all? Got it.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 12, 2022 2:07 pm

So defense doesn't count at all? Got it.

Everything counts - but not without considering the cost of paying for it.

And I really don't want to lose Johnson - his shooting is harder to find than big man defence, I think.