Game Day: Suns (16-18) @ Hornets (7-27), Tues 1/7/24

[Mori Chu]

I can't wait to see what BS the players spew after the game.

There’s a yeast infection going through the team and it’s hurting their play.

STOP IT!

Maybe if we had a sponsorship with monistat7.

You guys are making these jokes about vaginas and yeast infections and Monistat, but any group of women I know would be handling this shit better. They would likely be actually trying and give a shit, rather than being "unbothered" as they lose yet another game. They'd probably be working together, sharing the ball, playing team defense, rather than this BS ISO ball and lazy hand-wave matador stuff our guys play. They might be listening to the coach more, more willing to implement a coordinated scheme. And frankly they'd probably be shooting better. Our guys problems do not stem from being too "womanly"; they come from their being dumbass men, playing badly together and playing the wrong way.

[specialsauce]

The longer I think about it, I think KD is our main problem.

Our offensive stagnancy and predictability is KD's staple everywhere he's gone except in GS where they didn't kiss his ass and base their offensive system off him. He was forced to integrate and ultimately wore out his welcome.

Trade KD. Keep Beal and Book if you can't get a good return for Beal. Try your best to work with Beal/Book and the haul you get for KD and make a free agent splash in 2026 when Beal's contract comes off the books

Book. Beal. Amen Thompson. Reed Shepherd. Picks. Dunn. Oso.



Orrrrrrr

https://images.app.goo.gl/B1LMer6ovGLkjp38A

[Kryptonic]

[Superbone]

"You can't have that. The vibes and communication being high when we have it rolling and things going well and then when we get in a tough spot, just fold." Devin Booker.

"I just want to see the energy. Energy & effort high no matter what the score is. Just keep playing"

Us too Book, us too. If you lose with effort throughout, fine, but the Suns haven't shown us that. Block out your man! Way too many offensive rebounds. Ball had one last night similar to the Grizzlies game where he had no business getting the offensive rebound but he did anyway and scored and got the and one.

[Superbone]

The longer I think about it, I think KD is our main problem.

Our offensive stagnancy and predictability is KD's staple everywhere he's gone except in GS where they didn't kiss his ass and base their offensive system off him. He was forced to integrate and ultimately wore out his welcome.

Trade KD. Keep Beal and Book if you can't get a good return for Beal. Try your best to work with Beal/Book and the haul you get for KD and make a free agent splash in 2026 when Beal's contract comes off the books

Book. Beal. Amen Thompson. Reed Shepherd. Picks. Dunn. Oso.

That's a good point about KD wearing out his welcome at GS. Most of their players stayed together for a long time but why did KD only last a couple years?

[SunsSince92]

"You can't have that. The vibes and communication being high when we have it rolling and things going well and then when we get in a tough spot, just fold." Devin Booker.

"I just want to see the energy. Energy & effort high no matter what the score is. Just keep playing"

Us too Book, us too. If you lose with effort throughout, fine, but the Suns haven't shown us that. Block out your man! Way too many offensive rebounds. Ball had one last night similar to the Grizzlies game where he had no business getting the offensive rebound but he did anyway and scored and got the and one.

The irony is that he's probably one of the biggest culprits when it comes to this and has been all season. If you want to command that level of effort from your team you need to lead by example especially when you are getting paid the big bucks. 36 unbothered feels more and more like a them and us with every quote.

[Split T]

KD wasn’t getting credit for winning in GS. I think that’s part of it…but also he didn’t get along with Green

[TOO]

KDs main problem has always been he wants the recognition of being one of the greats but at the same time just wants to fit in and be one of the guys. You can't have it both ways.

[SunsSince92]

The longer I think about it, I think KD is our main problem.

Our offensive stagnancy and predictability is KD's staple everywhere he's gone except in GS where they didn't kiss his ass and base their offensive system off him. He was forced to integrate and ultimately wore out his welcome.

Trade KD. Keep Beal and Book if you can't get a good return for Beal. Try your best to work with Beal/Book and the haul you get for KD and make a free agent splash in 2026 when Beal's contract comes off the books

Book. Beal. Amen Thompson. Reed Shepherd. Picks. Dunn. Oso.



Orrrrrrr

https://images.app.goo.gl/B1LMer6ovGLkjp38A

I'd be on board with that. I think it's only a matter of time before we see KD start pouting and asking for a trade in any case. I don't think he's a great influence on Booker who has regressed since he arrived and would personally prefer to keep Beal if asked to choose.

[Split T]

I don’t think Beal and Booker work unless one comes off the bench and Booker plays pg when they share the court together. I just want to cheer for a fun team again…I don’t care how we get there, but give me our picks and 1-2 young guys I can get excited about.

Butler would at least bring a new energy. I would fully expect that to not work either, but it would fail differently and probably at least with a fight.

[ShelC]

KD tried following the same path as LBJ. LBJ left Cleveland when he didn't win and joined Wade in Miami to get his ring and secure his legacy. He did that, then went back to Cleveland to win "his own" ring because that was knock on him in Miami. KD couldn't win in OKC, jumped to GS to get a ring and secure his legacy, then went to Brooklyn with Kyrie to win "his own" ring because everyone called him a coattail rider. We know how BK turned out....

But those guys were intent on getting their rings because you can't claim greatness without one.

[Superbone]

KD tried following the same path as LBJ. LBJ left Cleveland when he didn't win and joined Wade in Miami to get his ring and secure his legacy. He did that, then went back to Cleveland to win "his own" ring because that was knock on him in Miami. KD couldn't win in OKC, jumped to GS to get a ring and secure his legacy, then went to Brooklyn with Kyrie to win "his own" ring because everyone called him a coattail rider. We know how BK turned out....

But those guys were intent on getting their rings because you can't claim greatness without one.

I don't know about that. Barkley did a pretty good job. Karl Malone and John Stockton were no slouches either. Steve Nash...

[Split T]

Yet all below KD historically

[ShelC]

Great players but not champions. There's a big difference in perception there. Guys like LBJ and KD don't want to be on that "great players to never win a ring" list with Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Nash, Melo. You want to be on the list with MJ, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Olajuwon, Kareem, Curry, Wade.

[Mori Chu]

The longer I think about it, I think KD is our main problem.

Our offensive stagnancy and predictability is KD's staple everywhere he's gone except in GS where they didn't kiss his ass and base their offensive system off him. He was forced to integrate and ultimately wore out his welcome.

Trade KD. Keep Beal and Book if you can't get a good return for Beal. Try your best to work with Beal/Book and the haul you get for KD and make a free agent splash in 2026 when Beal's contract comes off the books

Book. Beal. Amen Thompson. Reed Shepherd. Picks. Dunn. Oso.



Orrrrrrr

https://images.app.goo.gl/B1LMer6ovGLkjp38A

I've been a pretty vocal KD critic for most of this season. He's extremely talented, and in some respects he's been our best and most consistent player this season. But he just flunks the eye test. Some of my repeated gripes about him:

- Thinks he can dribble it up and initiate the offense, when actually he often gets stripped or loses the ball.
- Hogs the ball, too eager to chuck up shots and be a volume scorer vs. playing good team offense.
- Calls for the ball from the PG and grabs it from them as soon as they get across half-court too often.
- Good defender, but visibly says "F it" and waves his arm/hand if he gets beat or stripped, letting the other team have a fastbreak and layup.
- General mediocre effort. Seems like he can just show up and put up his shots and get his 25-30 points and he's done his part for the night.
- Not a vocal leader; doesn't get in other guys' faces, doesn't pump them up, doesn't communicate on the court.
- Bad interview attitude, doesn't take ownership for mistakes and losses.
- "Unbothered" attitude in public, makes it seem like W/L comes from luck or happenstance, rather than putting in the work, giving your best, all-out effort.
- Doesn't seem to mesh well with our other stars and scorers, nor make them better.

All of the above probably makes it sound like I hate KD or something. I don't. He's clearly an all-time great player and at times he has been fun to watch as a Sun. And I think it would be possible to put a championship team around KD, even this version of KD at this age. But I don't think this Suns team is that team. You would need a really good PG like a younger CP3 next to KD, and you'd need several 3-and-D roleplayers who do the grunt work and play hard defense, and you need a rim-running athletic center to catch lobs and passes and slow down the Jokics and Embiids. We mostly don't have these kinds of players other than a few good wings like Royce. I don't think you really benefit much from pairing KD with a Booker or Beal. What you really need is distributing, shooting, athleticism, defense, effort.

IMO I just think that KD is the single best trade asset we have, in terms of (a) the haul we'd get for him, which would be multiple picks and some good players back; and (b) the addition-by-subtraction we'd get from not having him as a center of gravity for the team in so many ways. Just give the car keys back to Booker and the rest of the squad and let us start trying to build a different expectation and culture.

[Split T]

KD has his flaws, but I don’t put this on him…he’s the one guy who’s actually living up to his contract right now. He’s 36 and still playing like a top 10 guy…yes there are things he could do better and I agree he’s proved not to be a great fit with Booker…but that’s equally on both of them to me.


If we’re trying to blame something, let’s blame whoever came up with the new CBA…that is really what screwed us…we got an owner willing to spend anything, traded away our depth and future for an immediate win now player and then the new CBA immediately handicapped our ability to put a real team around them. We’ve had to get creative and take a bunch of risks that just didn’t work. Would have been quite a bit easier to build a team if the 2nd apron didn’t exist.

[The Bobster]

The longer I think about it, I think KD is our main problem.

Our offensive stagnancy and predictability is KD's staple everywhere he's gone except in GS where they didn't kiss his ass and base their offensive system off him. He was forced to integrate and ultimately wore out his welcome.

Trade KD. Keep Beal and Book if you can't get a good return for Beal. Try your best to work with Beal/Book and the haul you get for KD and make a free agent splash in 2026 when Beal's contract comes off the books

Book. Beal. Amen Thompson. Reed Shepherd. Picks. Dunn. Oso.



Orrrrrrr

https://images.app.goo.gl/B1LMer6ovGLkjp38A

I've been a pretty vocal KD critic for most of this season. He's extremely talented, and in some respects he's been our best and most consistent player this season. But he just flunks the eye test. Some of my repeated gripes about him:

- Thinks he can dribble it up and initiate the offense, when actually he often gets stripped or loses the ball.
- Hogs the ball, too eager to chuck up shots and be a volume scorer vs. playing good team offense.
- Calls for the ball from the PG and grabs it from them as soon as they get across half-court too often.
- Good defender, but visibly says "F it" and waves his arm/hand if he gets beat or stripped, letting the other team have a fastbreak and layup.
- General mediocre effort. Seems like he can just show up and put up his shots and get his 25-30 points and he's done his part for the night.
- Not a vocal leader; doesn't get in other guys' faces, doesn't pump them up, doesn't communicate on the court.
- Bad interview attitude, doesn't take ownership for mistakes and losses.
- "Unbothered" attitude in public, makes it seem like W/L comes from luck or happenstance, rather than putting in the work, giving your best, all-out effort.
- Doesn't seem to mesh well with our other stars and scorers, nor make them better.

All of the above probably makes it sound like I hate KD or something. I don't. He's clearly an all-time great player and at times he has been fun to watch as a Sun. And I think it would be possible to put a championship team around KD, even this version of KD at this age. But I don't think this Suns team is that team. You would need a really good PG like a younger CP3 next to KD, and you'd need several 3-and-D roleplayers who do the grunt work and play hard defense, and you need a rim-running athletic center to catch lobs and passes and slow down the Jokics and Embiids. We mostly don't have these kinds of players other than a few good wings like Royce. I don't think you really benefit much from pairing KD with a Booker or Beal. What you really need is distributing, shooting, athleticism, defense, effort.

IMO I just think that KD is the single best trade asset we have, in terms of (a) the haul we'd get for him, which would be multiple picks and some good players back; and (b) the addition-by-subtraction we'd get from not having him as a center of gravity for the team in so many ways. Just give the car keys back to Booker and the rest of the squad and let us start trying to build a different expectation and culture.

Now do Booker. I want to hear what you say about his lack of leadership, his inconsistancy this year, his poor defense and his tendancy to play hero ball.

[ShelC]

The Suns knew the rules and Ishbia was only too happy to throw his money around and not care about the new aprons and tax penalties. Having a super rich owner willing to spend is what got us to this point.

Agree with everything about KD. I don't hate him, but this isn't the roster for him anymore. He's Melo and he needs strong leadership, dirtworkers/rebounders/defenders and shooters around him. He's not going to make others better. He's a scorer. If he'd have gotten here a year earlier with Monty and CP, it might've been different. I legitimately think Houston has the coach and roster that best suits him now. Maybe the Clippers too.

[ShelC]

The longer I think about it, I think KD is our main problem.

Our offensive stagnancy and predictability is KD's staple everywhere he's gone except in GS where they didn't kiss his ass and base their offensive system off him. He was forced to integrate and ultimately wore out his welcome.

Trade KD. Keep Beal and Book if you can't get a good return for Beal. Try your best to work with Beal/Book and the haul you get for KD and make a free agent splash in 2026 when Beal's contract comes off the books

Book. Beal. Amen Thompson. Reed Shepherd. Picks. Dunn. Oso.



Orrrrrrr

https://images.app.goo.gl/B1LMer6ovGLkjp38A

I've been a pretty vocal KD critic for most of this season. He's extremely talented, and in some respects he's been our best and most consistent player this season. But he just flunks the eye test. Some of my repeated gripes about him:

- Thinks he can dribble it up and initiate the offense, when actually he often gets stripped or loses the ball.
- Hogs the ball, too eager to chuck up shots and be a volume scorer vs. playing good team offense.
- Calls for the ball from the PG and grabs it from them as soon as they get across half-court too often.
- Good defender, but visibly says "F it" and waves his arm/hand if he gets beat or stripped, letting the other team have a fastbreak and layup.
- General mediocre effort. Seems like he can just show up and put up his shots and get his 25-30 points and he's done his part for the night.
- Not a vocal leader; doesn't get in other guys' faces, doesn't pump them up, doesn't communicate on the court.
- Bad interview attitude, doesn't take ownership for mistakes and losses.
- "Unbothered" attitude in public, makes it seem like W/L comes from luck or happenstance, rather than putting in the work, giving your best, all-out effort.
- Doesn't seem to mesh well with our other stars and scorers, nor make them better.

All of the above probably makes it sound like I hate KD or something. I don't. He's clearly an all-time great player and at times he has been fun to watch as a Sun. And I think it would be possible to put a championship team around KD, even this version of KD at this age. But I don't think this Suns team is that team. You would need a really good PG like a younger CP3 next to KD, and you'd need several 3-and-D roleplayers who do the grunt work and play hard defense, and you need a rim-running athletic center to catch lobs and passes and slow down the Jokics and Embiids. We mostly don't have these kinds of players other than a few good wings like Royce. I don't think you really benefit much from pairing KD with a Booker or Beal. What you really need is distributing, shooting, athleticism, defense, effort.

IMO I just think that KD is the single best trade asset we have, in terms of (a) the haul we'd get for him, which would be multiple picks and some good players back; and (b) the addition-by-subtraction we'd get from not having him as a center of gravity for the team in so many ways. Just give the car keys back to Booker and the rest of the squad and let us start trying to build a different expectation and culture.

Now do Booker. I want to hear what you say about his lack of leadership, his inconsistancy this year, his poor defense and his tendancy to play hero ball.

Why is this turning into KD vs Book? We've seen what Book's done for this org when he's had a team around him.

[The Bobster]

If we’re trying to blame something, let’s blame whoever came up with the new CBA…that is really what screwed us…we got an owner willing to spend anything, traded away our depth and future for an immediate win now player and then the new CBA immediately handicapped our ability to put a real team around them. We’ve had to get creative and take a bunch of risks that just didn’t work. Would have been quite a bit easier to build a team if the 2nd apron didn’t exist.

We have to blame a series of bad decisions since they made the Finals -

- They held onto Ayton too long and didn't trade him when they could have gotten more for him
- They paid too high a price for Durant
- They traded Paul and draft picks for a bad contract that killed any flexibility they may have had
- They made several poor choices last year when signing minimum contracts to fill out their roster, including the decision to contact Eubanks too soon, which cost them a draft choice
- They undervalued the significance of having a point guard on the roster last year
- They've hired defensive-minded coaches and givin them little in the way of defensive-minded players

The lion's share of the blame for this mess goes to the front office for this poorly-constructed team (we've been saying they need an athletic big for several years now, and thier top talent has too much duplication - they lack defenders and rebounders). But there's plenty of blame left over for the players who rarely show much effort and intensity. Their best players aren't leaders, and the entire roster has had problems staying on the court because of injuries and suspension.

This team is just as bad to watch as the Josh Jackson-Dragan Bender-Marquese Chriss shitshow was.