2015 Trade Deadline

[specialsauce]

one last thing, why do i get the sense that the end is near for our mcdo?

Put your boner away buddy

[Sunsfan4life]

Wow. Love Goran, but 4yrs 80mil? Thats pretty ridiculous for a 28yr old PG.

What does his age have to do with? Those are the prime years of a player's career. At the end of the deal he would be 32/33, hardly an old man by NBA standards.

Well first off age has everything to do with every contract ever given out including drafting. It measures where you are as a player compared to where your going to be. Age and experience. Particularly if you are a rebuilding team. As for prime, Well that's one mans opinion and it is certainly up for debate, but I think a players prime is late 20s. I think a player can be as good in his early 30's, but my point is I don't see Dragic drastically improving to warrant 20 mil a yr. If he was 23 or this was his 2nd yr in the league I'd say "Holy crap he's this good, look at what hes going to be at in 3 years". If hes not worth 20mil now he won't be in 4 years. Now you might think he is worth it now which is fine...

[AmareIsGod]

one last thing, why do i get the sense that the end is near for our mcdo?

Put your boner away buddy

That had me in tears. Thanks Sauce.

[INFORMER]

Well first off age has everything to do with every contract ever given out including drafting. It measures where you are as a player compared to where your going to be. Age and experience. Particularly if you are a rebuilding team. As for prime, Well that's one mans opinion and it is certainly up for debate, but I think a players prime is late 20s. I think a player can be as good in his early 30's, but my point is I don't see Dragic drastically improving to warrant 20 mil a yr. If he was 23 or this was his 2nd yr in the league I'd say "Holy crap he's this good, look at what hes going to be at in 3 years". If hes not worth 20mil now he won't be in 4 years.

That's all fine but it's besides the point. No one is pursuing Dragic with dreams of upside and whispers of potential. They see a player in his prime and they think he'll continue to play at this level for seasons to come. 4 years is a short period of time. And it is more the norm than not for high level players to perform in their early 30s. So that's why I said his age doesn't matter. Gone are the days where teams could hand out 6-7 year contracts. Giving a 4-year deal to a player not even 30 really isn't a big deal.

So the debate really is does a suitor believe he produces at a level that warrants $20 million per season.

[Gladiator]

https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/566477745136603136

[Gladiator]

https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/566478471954980864

[INFORMER]

https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/566478471954980864

That's a dumb tweet. They would still have Bledsoe and Ennis, a first round pick, and the MLE. I don't think we need to be worried about our freakin' point guard depth.

[virtual9mm]

This has been well played by Dragic for sure:

(1) By coming out publicly about how he's willing to consider other teams, and by doing things like follow Houston on Twitter, Dragic prevents the Suns from getting a decent return on a trade, reducing the likelihood of a trade. If the Suns do trade mid-season, Goran increases the talent level of the team he is headed towards. If the Suns do not trade mid-season, Goran can make a choice to stay or to sign and trade for Bird Rights or to leave. He's in control, not the Suns. Babby just got totally played by Goran and his agent -- totally reasonable given how everyone on the Suns is being seen as an "asset". Blowback is a biyatch.

(2) The Suns will NOT keep Goran if they do not trade away IT.

(3) The only win-win scenario is if the Suns get a decent return on IT, Goran and Bledsoe restore their chemistry, and Goran is happy enough to re-sign at about the same contract value as Bledsoe. If Dragic starts playing better like last year, he's worth at least that much, although a full max seems unlikely.

The question is, then, is if the Suns want to build around a Bledsoe-Dragic backcourt. The problem is that Dragic needs space to operate -- he doesn't necessarily need Frye but at least big men who can shoot at least the free throw line jumper. Is this what we want going forwards? Big men who can score inside and out (e.g. Markieff) come at a premium.

[Superbone]

https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/566477745136603136

Glad to F'n hear it!

[SDC]

https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/566477745136603136

Glad to F'n hear it!

i'd rather see bledsoe go. if mcdo manages to do the impossible, i'd do a 180 and become his biggest fan.

[ShelC]

Can we list the teams we think would want Thomas?

I also don't think it's a matter of moving Thomas to re-establish Bledsoe and Dragic. I think Dragic wants to play point, run his own team. So in that sense, he may be a goner regardless.

Either way, I don't think Thomas is a good fit. If we lose Dragic, it doesn't mean IT3 is a starter does it? We'd still need a 2guard in the backcourt and still need to find minutes for all 3 guys.

And if we're trading Dragic, the other team should have to take Tucker as well. I'd love for it to be the Morris Bros, but I don't think that's realistic. And the very least tho, we should include Tucker to get out from that deal.

[OE32]

Can we list the teams we think would want Thomas?

Boston, Brooklyn, Houston(?), Indiana, Miami, New Orleans, Washington(?)

I think we could probably pull off a package for Jrue Holiday with IT and maybe Green or Tuck - but where would we move him?

[ShelC]

I initially thought of Orlando, Brooklyn, and Chicago. Indy and Washington are interesting. Houston I don't think would want to commit money to him. Miami could use him as well but to what end?

Boston and Philly make sense I think but I don't think they want his deal.

[Ring_Wanted]

Miami makes a lot of sense. They should be interested in cheapo contracts and they certainly can use an upgrade at PG on offense, especially when Wade is out. Would have liked McBob back.

Indiana could have a reason to trade for him too. Offensively deprived, who knows how PG will come back, compatible backcourt partner in George. Cheap, which is always interesting to the Pacers. Maybe an expiring contract and a protected pick.

Boston, since supposedly Ainge had interest during the summer.
Philly I could see it to give MCW a guy who can take shots from him.
Chicago, if they didn't have Aaron Brooks playing well.
Chalotte if they hadn't already make their move for PG-scoring help.
Detroit, with Jennings out.

I believe Morey values the cap space more than IT3, and his role players are working. If I were them I'd look into Plumlee, for instance.

The Nets could do anything, really.
Washington could be a dark horse in terms of interest.
I wouldn't trade for him if I were the Magic. Let the kids learn a little on the fly and put the resources elsewhere (like keeping Tobias).
Same with the Blazers, who could make a move, but they have other needs. How about PJ?
Re: Jazz. See Magic.

[JCSunsfan]

Dragic will have value to a team that trades for him.

His cap hold will be around $11 million. So they can go out and sign free agents and then come back and go over the cap and sign Dragic for $17-20 million. I assume this is what the Lakers are thinking. Oh yeah, the Suns could do this too.

Its amazing to me how much criticism is going on here. I am curious. For those who are angry at the Suns for making Dragic "angry," what would would your idea scenario have been? Let Bledsoe walk? Sign Bledsoe for the QO? Not sign IT? Its easy to be upset, its not so easy to suggest a better scenario.

[Xylus]

I'm a big believer in the two-headed Dragonblade attack, so giving up Dragic and keeping IT would be a mistake. IT is a nice player who has won us a few games this year, but his presence gives Dragic zero opportunity to run the point. Last year, we had Bledsoe and Dragic sharing those duties equally. Now it seems like Hornacek's philosophy is to have the smallest person on the court run the show, weakening Dragic's value to the team.

The 3-PG lineup is effective offensively, but IT can't effectively guard elite point guards, Bledsoe's too small to effectively stop elite shooting guards, and Dragic should only ever guard small forwards if they're in there strictly for defensive purposes.

Trade IT (maybe in a package for Taj Gibson), pay Dragic, and look to make a big move during the summer.

[JCSunsfan]

This has been well played by Dragic for sure:

(1) By coming out publicly about how he's willing to consider other teams, and by doing things like follow Houston on Twitter, Dragic prevents the Suns from getting a decent return on a trade, reducing the likelihood of a trade. If the Suns do trade mid-season, Goran increases the talent level of the team he is headed towards. If the Suns do not trade mid-season, Goran can make a choice to stay or to sign and trade for Bird Rights or to leave. He's in control, not the Suns. Babby just got totally played by Goran and his agent -- totally reasonable given how everyone on the Suns is being seen as an "asset". Blowback is a biyatch.

(2) The Suns will NOT keep Goran if they do not trade away IT.

(3) The only win-win scenario is if the Suns get a decent return on IT, Goran and Bledsoe restore their chemistry, and Goran is happy enough to re-sign at about the same contract value as Bledsoe. If Dragic starts playing better like last year, he's worth at least that much, although a full max seems unlikely.

The question is, then, is if the Suns want to build around a Bledsoe-Dragic backcourt. The problem is that Dragic needs space to operate -- he doesn't necessarily need Frye but at least big men who can shoot at least the free throw line jumper. Is this what we want going forwards? Big men who can score inside and out (e.g. Markieff) come at a premium.

I agree with this post, for the most part.

I am curious about how an Ennis, Bledsoe back court would function. Bledsoe would play the 2 in that situation. I am not sure that IT is the Pariah that many seem to think he is. While most really like Dragic, he seems to really have declined some this year. He just does not seem to have the same intensity consistently.

We remember how good Dragic was last year, but I also remember seeing him play with an intensity that was clearly not maintainable. He was going to burn out or get injured if he tried to maintain that long term. Even then, without Bledsoe, he could only keep this team at .500 ball. I really like Dragic, but what we see of him right now is probably what he is. Last year was an aberration which could not continue.

Are we willing to pay $20 million a year for this Dragic?

Didn't think so. Just my opinion.

[OE32]

Word, JC.

I'm ready to watch the kids play. We're not gonna make it this year. Our intensity isn't there. I'd like to think that if the kids got a shot, we'd have greater intensity and the games would be a lot more fun to watch.

[Indy]

This has been well played by Dragic for sure:

(1) By coming out publicly about how he's willing to consider other teams, and by doing things like follow Houston on Twitter, Dragic prevents the Suns from getting a decent return on a trade, reducing the likelihood of a trade. If the Suns do trade mid-season, Goran increases the talent level of the team he is headed towards. If the Suns do not trade mid-season, Goran can make a choice to stay or to sign and trade for Bird Rights or to leave. He's in control, not the Suns. Babby just got totally played by Goran and his agent -- totally reasonable given how everyone on the Suns is being seen as an "asset". Blowback is a biyatch.

(2) The Suns will NOT keep Goran if they do not trade away IT.

(3) The only win-win scenario is if the Suns get a decent return on IT, Goran and Bledsoe restore their chemistry, and Goran is happy enough to re-sign at about the same contract value as Bledsoe. If Dragic starts playing better like last year, he's worth at least that much, although a full max seems unlikely.

The question is, then, is if the Suns want to build around a Bledsoe-Dragic backcourt. The problem is that Dragic needs space to operate -- he doesn't necessarily need Frye but at least big men who can shoot at least the free throw line jumper. Is this what we want going forwards? Big men who can score inside and out (e.g. Markieff) come at a premium.

I agree with this post, for the most part.

I am curious about how an Ennis, Bledsoe back court would function. Bledsoe would play the 2 in that situation. I am not sure that IT is the Pariah that many seem to think he is. While most really like Dragic, he seems to really have declined some this year. He just does not seem to have the same intensity consistently.

We remember how good Dragic was last year, but I also remember seeing him play with an intensity that was clearly not maintainable. He was going to burn out or get injured if he tried to maintain that long term. Even then, without Bledsoe, he could only keep this team at .500 ball. I really like Dragic, but what we see of him right now is probably what he is. Last year was an aberration which could not continue.

Are we willing to pay $20 million a year for this Dragic?

Didn't think so. Just my opinion.

It would be nice for this team to have at least one guy that has both played in big games, and has above average BBIQ. Nobody else on our team can say that. Not one.

And I think you are selling him short. Yes, he isn't as effective as a 2. That's why he should be playing the 1. As Sup said, we backed the wrong horse. Twice over this time.

[Indy]

Word, JC.

I'm ready to watch the kids play. We're not gonna make it this year. Our intensity isn't there. I'd like to think that if the kids got a shot, we'd have greater intensity and the games would be a lot more fun to watch.

By kids are you including Bledsoe? If so, he has been playing all year and only occasionally brings passion, and only in spurts.

If not, there is no way the Suns are going to only play him 25 a game if they dump Dragic.