Phx-Suns.Net

Indy wrote:

Mind-boggling dissonance from where I sit.

Well at least there is something about this issue we can agree on!

Yeah, I deleted that remark. The conversation is too quick.

i would have preferred to have kept the pick, but honestly what bothers me more is a larger strategy. i'm not sure if i'm ready to declare that i've lost faith in the front office quite yet, but i would like to see that strategy clearly stated. there are some vague notions of building a team for when the other top teams in the west are getting older, but that's about it.

at this point, it feels like we are not in full blown rebuild mode, which is how i rationalize the pick-for-knight trade. if that's the path, then i would prefer to defer the picks into the future, as we are already trying to develop archie, TJ, Len, and have bogdanovic coming in as well as our own pick in the coming year.

i've become a bit of a broken record about this so i'll stop now.

separately, it seems most of the board is advocating a full blow-up?

If by full blow up you mean dump any non-rookie contract players we have, and go from there, then I am in that group.

so total nay to bledsoe and the morrii and tucker? i get the case against bledsoe, but it seems all around the league the morrii contracts are seen as steals (at least markieff, but we as suns fans know the two brothers cannot be considered separate entities), while tucker is maybe the only player in the regular rotation with a mean streak. do we already not see a chance to be competitive at all with the current roster?

i'm not necessarily against that. my issue is, a. can we suffer through what philly is doing now, and b. we've proven that phoenix is no longer a free agency destination so how do we get a superstar to eventually push us over the hill? are we hoping to get lucky in the draft following a few years of sucking?

I am down with losing the Morrii. I don't like their attitudes, their lack of energy, their skill sets. I also understand they are good players who have value. Problem is, when I think of teams that would trade for them, it's a pretty short list. Indiana, Toronto, Washington. We may have a better chance if we break them up. I want to ditch the players standing in the way of TJ's development, and Marcus Morris is the stand-in-the-wayest.

Guys go where the money is. We could throw a bunch of money at Monroe and hope he develops into a go-to guy ala Aldridge.

The Morri and Tucker definitely need to go. Addition by subtraction IMO. Negative energy.

Rumor on RealGM had it that the Suns had a trade with Chicago set up for the Morri, but it got lost in the cracks with all the other activity going on.

I wonder if it might be worthwhile to ship Marcus out of town. There has to be certain repercussions for getting yourselves into a messy legal incident while being unprofessional on the court. I like Markieff's game too much to want to easily ship him out, though.

pickle wrote:so total nay to bledsoe and the morrii and tucker? i get the case against bledsoe, but it seems all around the league the morrii contracts are seen as steals (at least markieff, but we as suns fans know the two brothers cannot be considered separate entities), while tucker is maybe the only player in the regular rotation with a mean streak. do we already not see a chance to be competitive at all with the current roster?

i'm not necessarily against that. my issue is, a. can we suffer through what philly is doing now, and b. we've proven that phoenix is no longer a free agency destination so how do we get a superstar to eventually push us over the hill? are we hoping to get lucky in the draft following a few years of sucking?

Yeah, I am completely done with Tucker. He IS our veteran presence, and the guy can't make the bus on time. Professionalism isn't about just trying hard on the court. That is only about 10 hours a week of your full-time job.

As for the Morrii, I am with the others that say addition by subtraction. I defended Keef quite a bit since he is a very good offensive PF, but honestly, I can't see a situation that makes us a great team when he is our starting 4, with Len at the 5. And I don't want to get rid of Len.

Indy wrote:

pickle wrote:so total nay to bledsoe and the morrii and tucker? i get the case against bledsoe, but it seems all around the league the morrii contracts are seen as steals (at least markieff, but we as suns fans know the two brothers cannot be considered separate entities), while tucker is maybe the only player in the regular rotation with a mean streak. do we already not see a chance to be competitive at all with the current roster?

i'm not necessarily against that. my issue is, a. can we suffer through what philly is doing now, and b. we've proven that phoenix is no longer a free agency destination so how do we get a superstar to eventually push us over the hill? are we hoping to get lucky in the draft following a few years of sucking?

Yeah, I am completely done with Tucker. He IS our veteran presence, and the guy can't make the bus on time. Professionalism isn't about just trying hard on the court. That is only about 10 hours a week of your full-time job.

As for the Morrii, I am with the others that say addition by subtraction. I defended Keef quite a bit since he is a very good offensive PF, but honestly, I can't see a situation that makes us a great team when he is our starting 4, with Len at the 5. And I don't want to get rid of Len.

It seems that currently, any post or mid-range opportunity that would go to Len goes to Markieff. Putting a more defensive or interior-minded big next to Len might open things up for him offensively. Similarly, TJ and Marcus share the court a lot, and Marcus tends to take over and iso when they're together (also, and quite separately, why doesn't Bled give Warren the ball on the break? the kid's primary skill is getting loose on the break... is it just selfishness?). So, yeah. Our two most promising young players would benefit from seeing them go. And while it might be addition by subtraction, I would prefer to see them traded for something approaching market value (like Dragic) rather than for scraps (like Thomas).

And while it might be addition by subtraction, I would prefer to see them traded for something approaching market value (like Dragic) rather than for scraps (like Thomas).

Where do you rank these two guys against each other?

Indy wrote:

And while it might be addition by subtraction, I would prefer to see them traded for something approaching market value (like Dragic) rather than for scraps (like Thomas).

Where do you rank these two guys against each other?

I don't think they're that far apart on either end, but Thomas is more ball-dominant, which is a problem for most teams. But then I consider the contracts we transferred and the picks we got back. That Cavs pick is in the 24-30 range. Those Heat picks could be dandies. Celtics have gone on a tear since acquiring Thomas, who was player of the week for the east last week, putting up tremendous numbers, saving them in the clutch. No similar outburst for Dragic in Miami - nor for Knight in Phoenix.

I've been pretty consistent in my regard for Thomas. He was maligned here in Phoenix because people put so much of the blame for our chemistry issues on him. I didn't think it was deserved.

He was maligned here in Phoenix because people put so much of the blame for our chemistry issues on him. I didn't think it was deserved.

Yeah, I just don't get it. I think he was one of the few parts of our team that was performing exactly as expected. Probably just him and Len, honestly.

That Cavs pick is in the 24-30 range.

I have a hard time seeing a way where the Cavs have a top 5 record in the league next year. They are currently 9th, and could easily be 12th with a game or two swing. On the other side, it would take a 5 game swing to go to the top. I would bet that pick is a low 20s next year.

Celtics have gone on a tear since acquiring Thomas, who was player of the week for the east last week, putting up tremendous numbers, saving them in the clutch. No similar outburst for Dragic in Miami - nor for Knight in Phoenix.

I think Boston is the only team using their new player the right way.

"Celtics have gone on a tear since acquiring Thomas, who was player of the week for the east last week, putting up tremendous numbers, saving them in the clutch."

Danny Ainge and the Boston coach knew what they needed and knew what they were getting.

In hindsight, signing IT seems to have been somewhat of a desperation move. Not that his contract was bad, or that he was a bad player, but he was a bad fit for what they needed, which was more of a distributer and pace-setting guy. It makes you wonder if the Suns "brain trust" has a cogent, cohesive, long-term plan.

I still don't get why we didn't just stop after the Dragic trade. Get those two 1st rounders for him; that was a good deal given that the guy demanded a trade at the last minute. Then just stand pat. I didn't like IT, but we didn't get good value for him. And the Knight deal, ugggggh, we lost that Laker pick and most of our whole future with it. Bad trade deadline.

Indy wrote:

Celtics have gone on a tear since acquiring Thomas, who was player of the week for the east last week, putting up tremendous numbers, saving them in the clutch. No similar outburst for Dragic in Miami - nor for Knight in Phoenix.

I think Boston is the only team using their new player the right way.

I'm a fan of Brad Stevens. The guy just knows how to coach.

Especially given Knight's injury last night. Suns went from having too many "point guards" to only one healthy candidate.

And trading Plumlee left the team thin up front. The Earl of Barron doesn't do it for me....

LazarusLong wrote:It makes you wonder if the Suns "brain trust" has a cogent, cohesive, long-term plan.

I think if you ask certain posters the answer is no. Others would likely toe the company line, "accumulate assets, trade for a star." If you want to go any deeper than that though it's clear that the FO is kind of winging it.

I didn't like IT, but we didn't get good value for him.

We got a mid to late 1st rounder for him and cleared salary for the next several years. I am not a fan of the trade, but if our FO decided he wasn't a fit for us, I am not sure waiting until next year would have helped us.

LazarusLong wrote:Especially given Knight's injury last night. Suns went from having too many "point guards" to only one healthy candidate.

And trading Plumlee left the team thin up front. The Earl of Barron doesn't do it for me....

This is likely wishful thinking, but Archie has looked good of late when he gets time, and actually looked like a decent PG. He seems to have some really good chemistry with TJ on the court, and I see him talking to Len a lot.

Mori Chu wrote:And the Knight deal, ugggggh, we lost that Laker pick and most of our whole future with it.

carey wrote:

LazarusLong wrote:It makes you wonder if the Suns "brain trust" has a cogent, cohesive, long-term plan.

I think if you ask certain posters the answer is no. Others would likely toe the company line, "accumulate assets, trade for a star." If you want to go any deeper than that though it's clear that the FO is kind of winging it.

If you had told me two years ago that by this time, we'd have this kind of talent on the roster, with three additional first rounders owed us, I would have been ecstatic.

If I could do it all over, the biggest change I'd make is winning so many damn games last year. Arguably, that's what got us such value for Goran. Then again, if we could only have just slipped under the Wolves, we'd have had the #13, 14, 18 and 26 picks in last year's draft - enough, I'd think to make a move for another cornerstone, such as Vonleh or Saric. People say this draft has lots of solid PF's, but I don't see that kind of talent being available in the mid-late lotto. I'd be shocked if Turner fell that far.