Phx-Suns.Net

Cap wrote:

Mori Chu wrote:

ShelC wrote:We should look at another big...athletic 4/5 should we lose Wright. We need shooters I think, dead eye shooters. Archie isn't a 3pt threat (yet), neither is TJ and anyone else is streaking. I'd like a knockdown SF. Problem is Tucker and Marcus Morris.

We need *everything*. We don't have enough great 3pt shooters. We don't have enough guards who can pass. We don't have a stud PF/C who can defend the paint like a madman. Our bigs don't rebound well enough.

... What exactly are we good at? What kind of team do we even have? "Young"?

When your team isn't especially good at anything in particular, the word for that is "versatile."

Is that like dating a girl with a great personality?

Hey, maybe we'll win the lotto and be able to grab Okafor. You never know!

Say the Knicks get the #1 pick. Think a package of Len, Bledsoe, Tucker is enough to get the #1 and Calderon?

I think the Morris twins are enough to get the Kings or Pistons pick.

Knight/Goodwin/TJ/Turner/Okafor

Just dreamin'

I don't think so. MSG/The Knicks are about image more than winning and the #1 pick holds value with the fans. They'd find a way to screw up the pick and player somehow, but they'd be crucifed for trading the pick. If they take Towns, he might not be ready to play and have unrealistic expectations put on him. If they take Okafor, you wonder if he's a good fit next to Melo, in the triangle, and if they can play through him on the block and not always through 'Melo.

If it's the 4 pick, then I think it gets interesting. I wouldn't trade Len, but i think Bledsoe, the Morri, and our pick for theirs would do it. I might take back Calderon if push comes to shove. But if they land at 4, they're more apt to trade the pick and try to compete with a more veteran team and Bledsoe and the Morri would be a legit influx of talent to their roster, not to mention the Morri actually being good fits for the triangle. Bledsoe wouldn't be a good fit for the triangle, but he'd be a splashy name they could sell and, all things being equal, is the type of dynamic scoring guard you need opposite Melo. In that case, they'd be wise to move away from the triangle.

i'm not a fan of any such trade... draft picks are like new cars... as soon as they get off the lot their values start diminishing. i'm not saying okafor/towns/anybody this year is going to be a bust, but to give up all three of len, bledsoe, and tucker for just the one pick and the privilege to be paying the slow and oft-injured and positively steve nash-esque on defense calderon for 2 more years? i'd pass. i might even think any two of those three is too much to give up for this combo.

ShelC wrote: If it's the 4 pick, then I think it gets interesting. I wouldn't trade Len, but i think Bledsoe, the Morri, and our pick for theirs would do it.

At #4, I'm only interested if Russell is still on the board. And I imagine Bledsoe alone would get it done. Bled and the Morrii and our pick? Ridiculous. But judging by the board, Suns fans these days are downright masochistic.

I only consider giving up Len if Towns or Okafor are in play.

OE32 wrote:

ShelC wrote: If it's the 4 pick, then I think it gets interesting. I wouldn't trade Len, but i think Bledsoe, the Morri, and our pick for theirs would do it.

At #4, I'm only interested if Russell is still on the board. And I imagine Bledsoe alone would get it done. Bled and the Morrii and our pick? Ridiculous. But judging by the board, Suns fans these days are downright masochistic.

i quite agree with this sentiment. i remember the board spending half the season griping about how much plumlee sucks, and then when we move him for knight he's suddenly a promising player that was recently drafted in the first round. may be it was two groups of fans offering up these divergent perspectives, but generally speaking, i think future picks are worth more when they are future... and we seem overly eager to bank on that intrigue.

It would take more than Bledsoe. There's a lot of talent still at 4 but it's also about moving salary and addition by subtraction/shaking out the roster. If you move that salary without taking any back, it's a win. Commit to Knight at 12mil per, Archie gets more minutes, TJ can play, then grab a 4, re-sign Wright and run with those kids. Tucker can stay but needs a defensive role off the bench where he belongs.

i understand that we want rid of bledsoe... but we can keep bledsoe and still pay knight 12 per, right? assuming all that happens, the only difference is that archie gets more minutes, in this new scenario, right? at this point bledsoe is still a superior player to archie, and we'd still have to move the morrii, or the new 4 that we grab will still be mired on the bench... it might be incremental improvements, but unless the new rookie is transcendental in three years, i don't think it will get us over the hump.

ShelC wrote:It would take more than Bledsoe. There's a lot of talent still at 4 but it's also about moving salary and addition by subtraction/shaking out the roster. If you move that salary without taking any back, it's a win. Commit to Knight at 12mil per, Archie gets more minutes, TJ can play, then grab a 4, re-sign Wright and run with those kids. Tucker can stay but needs a defensive role off the bench where he belongs.

This is all just wrong. $13 mil for Bledsoe is great. That salary is an asset. And it's not addition by subtraction. This sort of thinking makes me think the fan base needs a lobotomy.

I target the Knicks because of where they are i their development. They have a superstar and they will soon have cap space. They could try to ditch Melo and actually rebuild, or they can use their pick to try to contend immediately. We'll find out.

Jerian Grant vs Fred Van Vleet tonight should be 1 of the better point guard matchups you'll see in March Madness this yr. Witchita vs ND 7:15.

Anyone else really like Terry Rozier?

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:Anyone else really like Terry Rozier?

I'll bet his mom does.

OE32 wrote: This is all just wrong. $13 mil for Bledsoe is great. That salary is an asset. And it's not addition by subtraction. This sort of thinking makes me think the fan base needs a lobotomy.

I target the Knicks because of where they are i their development. They have a superstar and they will soon have cap space. They could try to ditch Melo and actually rebuild, or they can use their pick to try to contend immediately. We'll find out.

the knicks are definitely interesting to watch. personally never been a fan of jackson with all that zen crap, but it's hard to argue with his success. it's been a long-going debate, whether he won coz of the star players or if they won coz of him. obviously being able to reign in personalities like jordan and kobe is a tremendous skill but i am in the camp that thinks that he's not an all-purpose coach/exec like some make him out to be.

back to the knicks, i really can't see them ditching carmelo. they have 4 more years and 100 mil invested into that contract and ditching him now will never get them anything near equal in return. as i recall they won't have any more decent draft picks for the next few years, and jackson has the same length contract as melo to make this work. the new york media won't have the patience to watch a rebuild from scratch.

OE32 wrote:

ShelC wrote:It would take more than Bledsoe. There's a lot of talent still at 4 but it's also about moving salary and addition by subtraction/shaking out the roster. If you move that salary without taking any back, it's a win. Commit to Knight at 12mil per, Archie gets more minutes, TJ can play, then grab a 4, re-sign Wright and run with those kids. Tucker can stay but needs a defensive role off the bench where he belongs.

This is all just wrong. $13 mil for Bledsoe is great. That salary is an asset. And it's not addition by subtraction. This sort of thinking makes me think the fan base needs a lobotomy.

I target the Knicks because of where they are i their development. They have a superstar and they will soon have cap space. They could try to ditch Melo and actually rebuild, or they can use their pick to try to contend immediately. We'll find out.

The more I watch Bledsoe in person, the less value I think he has. I really hope he goes out and gets a few triple doubles before the season is over so we can get someone else to bite on his potential. He isn't and never will be a PG.

I can never understand if Phils being serious or just playing games, but everything he is describing and saying about the draft and the upcoming offseason suggest that a Bledsoe for there pick trade is something they'd be interested in. I think if the Knicks get a top 3 pick they are probabaly staying put and drafting Russel/KAT/Okafor but if it falls after that I can see them dealing it.

Emmanuel Mudiay would look great in a suns uniform...

With the cap exploding like it's about to, one wonders if the Knicks would be interested in a push.

Say they're in a position to take Russel, but no Okafor or Towns. They trade him for Bledsoe, and maybe we also send the #13. They take Harrell or Lyles. Then, in free agency, they add DeAndre Jordan.

Bled/Hardaway/Anthony/Harrell/Jordan

Not bad.

Trading Bledsoe for a top draft pick sounds heavenly right now. I really don't think we can build a contending team around him. Tired of these 7-assist, 6-turnover games where he looks off the open man two dozen times and bounces the ball off his foot every other play.

Mori Chu wrote:Trading Bledsoe for a top draft pick sounds heavenly right now. I really don't think we can build a contending team around him. Tired of these 7-assist, 6-turnover games where he looks off the open man two dozen times and bounces the ball off his foot every other play.

Way too harsh, Mori. It is only about 20% of the plays that he dribbles it off his foot.

I'd be perfectly fine with Bledsoe if he would just pass the friggin' ball, let others make plays. He's trying to prove too much to himself. A bit of humility would go a long ways.

But maybe it's the coaching. We don't know what these guys are being told in practice. Hopefully this offseason sheds some light on what our FO and coaching staff thinks privately.

OK. I think the Suns and Sixers have already been talking about draft picks and trades. If the Sixers end up with the #1 or #2 pick they take Okafor or Towns. They then trade Embiid for the Morris twins (who have been showcased fairly well lately and would be a perfect fit in Philly). Now their frontline in Okafor, Kieff, Noel, and Mook. Nice bit of talent and attitude.

Just speculating.