Phx-Suns.Net

They can just sign Griffin outright, if they're collecting assets I think it's to go get butler.

If Fultz is really available, what would you give for him?

O_Gardino wrote:If Fultz is really available, what would you give for him?

Idk, he is great, but his competiveness scares me more than anything.

O_Gardino wrote:If Fultz is really available, what would you give for him?

Nothing. I'm not trading up and giving up assests to get a guy who I'm not sure is the best player in this draft. I totally understand why Philly would do it. I still like it alot for Boston though.

The more I think about this draft, the more convinced I become that we should take a swing at the fences and draft DSJ. This is assuming, of course, that top 3 remains Fultz, Ball, and Jackson in some order. If DSJ played on a team even a quarter as talented as Kentucky, I think we would be talking about just the same as we do Fox. He is even more athletic than Fox is, is already a better shooter, is an excellent passer with vision, and is an absolute take-no-prisoners bulldog. He isn't on the same level defensively as Fox, but frankly, I don't give a shit about PG defense. It is the least important defensive position on the court. If you are relying on your PG to lead your defense, you are already fucked. If we can't get one of the consensus top 3, we should take DSJ.

To clarify, my big board (not taking into account any team needs) goes as follows: 1) Fultz 2) Ball 3) Jackson 4) Isaac 5) DSJ 6) Monk 7) Tatum 8) Fox 9) Lauri 10) Nitilikina

I think Isaac is a better prospect than DSJ, but you can't draft him the year after drafting both Chriss and Bender. It's just a terrible decision from a team building standpoint. Unless you are very, very confident one of those 3 can be your center of the future. This is also assuming both Bender and Isaac can spend time at SF, which I am skeptical about. These days, it is almost always better to size down rather than up.

If you draft DSJ you better believe he's a star. He's a ball dominant, offense runs through him pg in the Westbrook, Rose, Francis, Marbury mold. If he's Rose or Westbrook it might work, but if he's Francis or Marbury, I think you've got a 6 seed ceiling unless you have an Anthony Davis/KAT level big man.

There is a possibility his shot is better than I think. A lot of people love it and there are some stats to back that up, but I'm hesitant. If his shot is legit, he could maybe have a Damian Lillard like career arc in style and production. I still prefer Ball, Jackson, Isaac, and even Tatum. I think Fox and Smith are only draftable if we move Bledsoe.

n4th4n wrote:To clarify, my big board (not taking into account any team needs) goes as follows: 1) Fultz 2) Ball 3) Jackson 4) Isaac 5) DSJ 6) Monk 7) Tatum 8) Fox 9) Lauri 10) Nitilikina

I think Isaac is a better prospect than DSJ, but you can't draft him the year after drafting both Chriss and Bender. It's just a terrible decision from a team building standpoint. Unless you are very, very confident one of those 3 can be your center of the future. This is also assuming both Bender and Isaac can spend time at SF, which I am skeptical about. These days, it is almost always better to size down rather than up.

Posted my comment before I saw this, I think that's a fair spot for Smith. My board changes every day but right now I think I'm

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Isaac
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Smith Jr
8. Ntilikina
9. Mitchell
10. Monk

Ball, Jackson, and Isaac are all basically in a tie right now. Same with Fox and Smith

Split T wrote:If you draft DSJ you better believe he's a star. He's a ball dominant, offense runs through him pg in the Westbrook, Rose, Francis, Marbury mold. If he's Rose or Westbrook it might work, but if he's Francis or Marbury, I think you've got a 6 seed ceiling unless you have an Anthony Davis/KAT level big man.

There is a possibility his shot is better than I think. A lot of people love it and there are some stats to back that up, but I'm hesitant. If his shot is legit, he could maybe have a Damian Lillard like career arc in style and production. I still prefer Ball, Jackson, Isaac, and even Tatum. I think Fox and Smith are only draftable if we move Bledsoe.

Here is the thing though - he is actually LESS ball dominate than Fox. He averages more assists per-40 (EVEN PACE ADJUSTED!!) than Fox with vastly inferior teammates. The idea that he is more ball dominant that Fox is 100% narrative. And the fact that he is a much better shooter than Fox means he has a much better chance of functioning well off-ball. What is Fox going to be able to do off-ball if he can't shoot? He isn't experienced in that role at all.

Split T wrote:

n4th4n wrote:To clarify, my big board (not taking into account any team needs) goes as follows: 1) Fultz 2) Ball 3) Jackson 4) Isaac 5) DSJ 6) Monk 7) Tatum 8) Fox 9) Lauri 10) Nitilikina

I think Isaac is a better prospect than DSJ, but you can't draft him the year after drafting both Chriss and Bender. It's just a terrible decision from a team building standpoint. Unless you are very, very confident one of those 3 can be your center of the future. This is also assuming both Bender and Isaac can spend time at SF, which I am skeptical about. These days, it is almost always better to size down rather than up.

Posted my comment before I saw this, I think that's a fair spot for Smith. My board changes every day but right now I think I'm

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Isaac
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Smith Jr
8. Ntilikina
9. Mitchell
10. Monk

Ball, Jackson, and Isaac are all basically in a tie right now. Same with Fox and Smith

I am a big Mitchell fan too, I am glad to see you have him ranked so high. I've strongly considered placing him above Nitilikina. Frankly... I just don't have a good feel for Nitiikina.

n4th4n wrote:The more I think about this draft, the more convinced I become that we should take a swing at the fences and draft DSJ. This is assuming, of course, that top 3 remains Fultz, Ball, and Jackson in some order. If DSJ played on a team even a quarter as talented as Kentucky, I think we would be talking about just the same as we do Fox. He is even more athletic than Fox is, is already a better shooter, is an excellent passer with vision, and is an absolute take-no-prisoners bulldog. He isn't on the same level defensively as Fox, but frankly, I don't give a shit about PG defense. It is the least important defensive position on the court. If you are relying on your PG to lead your defense, you are already fucked. If we can't get one of the consensus top 3, we should take DSJ.

Huh. Tell that to Cleveland. Kyrie was brutal defensively all series & it really hurt them. Same for Boston with IT. They barely got by Washington because Wall ate his lunch every night.

https://twitter.com/Suns/status/875803672487133184

carey wrote:

n4th4n wrote:The more I think about this draft, the more convinced I become that we should take a swing at the fences and draft DSJ. This is assuming, of course, that top 3 remains Fultz, Ball, and Jackson in some order. If DSJ played on a team even a quarter as talented as Kentucky, I think we would be talking about just the same as we do Fox. He is even more athletic than Fox is, is already a better shooter, is an excellent passer with vision, and is an absolute take-no-prisoners bulldog. He isn't on the same level defensively as Fox, but frankly, I don't give a s*** about PG defense. It is the least important defensive position on the court. If you are relying on your PG to lead your defense, you are already f***. If we can't get one of the consensus top 3, we should take DSJ.

Huh. Tell that to Cleveland. Kyrie was brutal defensively all series & it really hurt them. Same for Boston with IT. They barely got by Washington because Wall ate his lunch every night.

Their problem was that they did not have a defensive line behind Kyrie. Who is protecting the rim on Cleveland? Thompson? He is a worse rim protector than Len. The same is true for Boston. They had zero rim protection. Washington had two of the best guards in the playoffs, and they still couldn't leverage Thomas' defensive inefficiencies enough to grab a victory. And Thomas is an extreme case when it comes to defensive liabilities. The fact is, scheme, team defense, and overall defensive versatility are much more important than PG defense. More often than not, teams that overly focus on exploiting individual mismatches by, for example, throwing the ball into the post over and over again versus a lil' defender such as Thomas, end up tanking their offensive efficiency by deviating so dramatically from their standard sets and game plan. Of course, there are always exceptions. It should also be noted, DSJ is 6'3 195 with a never-fucking-back-down mentality. I don't think he is ever going to be a pushover defensively when it matters. Especially when he doesn't have to put the entire team on his back offensively.

n4th4n wrote:

Split T wrote:If you draft DSJ you better believe he's a star. He's a ball dominant, offense runs through him pg in the Westbrook, Rose, Francis, Marbury mold. If he's Rose or Westbrook it might work, but if he's Francis or Marbury, I think you've got a 6 seed ceiling unless you have an Anthony Davis/KAT level big man.

There is a possibility his shot is better than I think. A lot of people love it and there are some stats to back that up, but I'm hesitant. If his shot is legit, he could maybe have a Damian Lillard like career arc in style and production. I still prefer Ball, Jackson, Isaac, and even Tatum. I think Fox and Smith are only draftable if we move Bledsoe.

Here is the thing though - he is actually LESS ball dominate than Fox. He averages more assists per-40 (EVEN PACE ADJUSTED!!) than Fox with vastly inferior teammates. The idea that he is more ball dominant that Fox is 100% narrative. And the fact that he is a much better shooter than Fox means he has a much better chance of functioning well off-ball. What is Fox going to be able to do off-ball if he can't shoot? He isn't experienced in that role at all.

I think fox is going to be a pretty ball dominant PG as well. I've cooled on him a little bit lately. As far as the higher assist numbers, Westbrook and Marbury always had high assist numbers as well, because they always had the ball. Usage rate is a better indicator of how ball dominant someone is. Fox and Smith were essentially the same, which admittedly surprised me, I figured Smith would be higher when Fox was actually a touch higher.

Still, I don't think it matters much, at this point I wouldn't draft either of them unless we added a second pick by trading bledsoe, but Smith might be being underrated in general.

Keep an eye on Jonah Bolden. Left UCLA to go play overseas and had a big year. 6'10 with a 7'3 wingspan. Moves really well, can put the ball on the floor, athletic finisher at the rim, can stroke the three, switch on d and protect the rim. He's got everything you need in a modern stretch 4. He's not elite in any of these skills but he's capable. I think someone will take a flier on him at the end of round 1, but I would be happy if he fell to 32.

Split T wrote:

n4th4n wrote:

Split T wrote:If you draft DSJ you better believe he's a star. He's a ball dominant, offense runs through him pg in the Westbrook, Rose, Francis, Marbury mold. If he's Rose or Westbrook it might work, but if he's Francis or Marbury, I think you've got a 6 seed ceiling unless you have an Anthony Davis/KAT level big man.

There is a possibility his shot is better than I think. A lot of people love it and there are some stats to back that up, but I'm hesitant. If his shot is legit, he could maybe have a Damian Lillard like career arc in style and production. I still prefer Ball, Jackson, Isaac, and even Tatum. I think Fox and Smith are only draftable if we move Bledsoe.

Here is the thing though - he is actually LESS ball dominate than Fox. He averages more assists per-40 (EVEN PACE ADJUSTED!!) than Fox with vastly inferior teammates. The idea that he is more ball dominant that Fox is 100% narrative. And the fact that he is a much better shooter than Fox means he has a much better chance of functioning well off-ball. What is Fox going to be able to do off-ball if he can't shoot? He isn't experienced in that role at all.

I think fox is going to be a pretty ball dominant PG as well. I've cooled on him a little bit lately. As far as the higher assist numbers, Westbrook and Marbury always had high assist numbers as well, because they always had the ball. Usage rate is a better indicator of how ball dominant someone is. Fox and Smith were essentially the same, which admittedly surprised me, I figured Smith would be higher when Fox was actually a touch higher.

Still, I don't think it matters much, at this point I wouldn't draft either of them unless we added a second pick by trading bledsoe, but Smith might be being underrated in general.

Yup, I think generally we are on the same page. There is a reason I have 4 prospects ranked above DSJ. And drafting him would necessitate moving Bledsoe. I can totally see the case for drafting Tatum above one of the guards but from a long term asset-oriented team building standpoint, I think you have to draft a PG and trade Bledsoe. Take the year to see what you really have in Warren (I'm not super optimistic) and take next year to fill in the holes at C and SF. You could even start filling those holes this year with whatever assets you end up nabbing for Bledsoe.

I just watched a little piece on NBA TV interviewing Fox. He's a really engaging kid and seems really bright. I'm not too worried about who we're going to draft. I'm probably going to be happy with whomever we get at 4.

This draft is just nuts. So many opinions on so many players.

Superbone wrote:I just watched a little piece on NBA TV interviewing Fox. He's a really engaging kid and seems really bright. I'm not too worried about who we're going to draft. I'm probably going to be happy with whomever we get at 4.

Yup. I'm even convincing myself that I'll be ok with Isaac.

https://youtu.be/75FCuzEzTO0

Of course this could very well be a bluff to get the Lakers or the Suns into a bidding war but Zach Lowe says it looks a lot like it's actually happening ...

Could it be that Boston only does it when their guy is still there at #3, I mean how can they know? What if the Lakers take Jackson or Tatum?

If Boston somehow manages to get who they want plus another unprotected first, then Danny Ainge is really doing his job.

We all know this ain't happening but I wish someone like Ainge would write a brutally honest bio one day. Some NBA front offices must really be hell's kitchen this time of the year.