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Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect & March Madness Discussion
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:31 pm
by In2ition
pickle wrote:Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:It's true that they are shooting different kinds of shots. But I don't want to penalize Ball for that. He finds the shots he can get that he is comfortable making, and he makes them. Fultz likes taking different kinds of shots. That's how the numbers end up. Why penalize Ball? The only logical reason would be if we think he won't get those kinds of shots in the NBA. But I think he'll still be able to get to the rim and take layups and short shots if he wants them. And we know he can already shoot NBA 3s.
I wasn't penalizing Ball for anything in particular, just pointing out that statistics aren't always comparable. As a player, one can be disciplined enough to only take good shots, in which case he can have a great FG%, but to take an extreme example, Jordan shot 71% on FG% for the season, but I wouldn't want him to be taking the last shot for me in a tight game. Obviously discipline is a good thing, but with a first or second overall pick, which doesn't come around that often, I guess I'd like to get a guy who can finish games for me and be the one guy to get buckets when all the others are shut down or playing poorly.
I've wavered between Ball and Fultz several times personally. Haven't fully decided I want to go one way or another. But as I mentioned so many times already, that sidewinder shot is really bothering me. Not only is it going to affect his ability to shoot the midrange shot, it's very difficult for him right now to shoot while going right. Even when he drives right he still does a side hop back to his left before releasing, which means smarter/stronger/faster defenders can just overplay his left and play for the pass... Overall I'm not comfortable with all the implications.
I totally understand this, and it's why I'm on the fence on which player I would like to see. Right now, I think pg would be best for this team, so I'm hoping for a top 2 pick. If it falls out, I hope the Suns have a great plan ahead for this offseason. I don't want them to sacrifice their core and age of the team, just want them to improve and reimforce them. So as McD said, when they become good, they will be good for a good 10 years, and hopefully longer.
I would like to see stats of both Ball and Fultz, where transition stats are taken out, to compare them for only a half court sense. That way we can see if the hypothesis that Ball is a liability in the half court and only a plus in a transition offense is true.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect & March Madness Discussion
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:32 pm
by Mori Chu
Guys, quit busting my Ball.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect & March Madness Discussion
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:36 pm
by Superbone
I'm not going to worry too much about Fultz vs. Ball unless we get a top two pick.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect & March Madness Discussion
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:01 pm
by Aztec Sunsfan
Superbone wrote:I'm not going to worry too much about Fultz vs. Ball unless we get a top two pick.
This. I don't want to break my head over this, until I know is our problem to pick one out of the two. Looks like a really hard choice to make, but knowing our luck, we will be really lucky just to stay at N° 2
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect & March Madness Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:10 am
by 3rdside
O_Gardino wrote:3rdside wrote:Yes, you did.
I'll hand it to you. That was a good recovery.
Thank you - details are rarely my strong point.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:41 am
by Mori Chu
I'm already preemptively depressed and coming to accept that we'll probably get the #4 pick and have to take some deeply flawed swingman rather than a franchise-changing point guard we really need.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:59 am
by pickle
I know that it's easier to deal with failure if we can first come to terms with it, but you guys do know that the percentages are stacked that way by design... right? We still have a greater chance than all but one team to land a top two pick, it's just very difficult to compete with all the other teams' combined chances to get into the top two.
But I think you guys know this and just don't want to be disappointed come lottery day, which I understand.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:09 am
by Ring_Wanted
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I'm already preemptively depressed and coming to accept that we'll probably get the #4 pick...
Probably pointed before, but we have a
31.9% to get the #4, 17.1% to end up #3, 18.8% for #2 and 19.1% at #1. 12.3% of going #5.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:59 pm
by O_Gardino
Question for those of you who know the college game better than I do. Why do people like Tatum better than Isaac? Do folks really feel that Tatum has star potential?
When I watch highlights, I like Isaac a lot for the NBA game. Doesn't seem to have the fluidity or raw athleticism to be a true star, but he can shoot from deep, handle the ball, rebound, dunk, shoot off the dribble, and move in the offense. He reminds me a little of Booker in college in that he is already making the kind of shots he will get in the pros.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:01 pm
by Split T
Tatum looks like he'll be a good ISO scorer in the NBA. That's not too common in wing players and it's hard to be a star without that ability. I don't think he's at Melo's level, but he's pretty similar in his ability to score from just about anywhere. I don't think Isaac will ever be a star, he hasn't shown as much off the dribble skills as I would have hoped. Still, he's 6'11, super long, a good athlete, can shoot and will possibly be able to play 3-5 depending on how he fills out. Really skinny right now. I like him though. I'd take him over tatum
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:33 pm
by O_Gardino
Thanks, SplitT.
Right now, if we land #4 and Fultz/ Ball / Jackson are all taken, I would be very tempted to try to trade #4 to Sac for 8 and 10 and take Ntilikina and Isaac. Both look like great fits next to Booker, and I'm really not interested in anyone else in the top 12 besides Fox. I'm still holding out hope that we have a player in Bender who can help keep the ball moving.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:12 pm
by Split T
O_Gardino wrote:Thanks, SplitT.
Right now, if we land #4 and Fultz/ Ball / Jackson are all taken, I would be very tempted to try to trade #4 to Sac for 8 and 10 and take Ntilikina and Isaac. Both look like great fits next to Booker, and I'm really not interested in anyone else in the top 12 besides Fox. I'm still holding out hope that we have a player in Bender who can help keep the ball moving.
I'd be ok with that. But I'd want some assurances our guy(s) would be there at 8/10. Hard to see how that would be possible though.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:07 pm
by O_Gardino
Any interest in Juwan Evans if he drops to #32?
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:20 pm
by carey
How come no one jumped on this when I proposed ransoming Markkanen if we fell out of the top 3 for a couple firsts (or lotto first & young asset) like 2 months ago?
Re: RE: Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:22 pm
by carey
O_Gardino wrote:Any interest in Juwan Evans if he drops to #32?
Love his game. Not sure where he fits on the team as currently constructed. There is a bit of CPMe to his game.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:30 pm
by specialsauce
carey wrote:How come no one jumped on this when I proposed ransoming Markkanen if we fell out of the top 3 for a couple firsts (or lotto first & young asset) like 2 months ago?
Y'all got Carey'd again
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:35 pm
by carey
specialsauce wrote:carey wrote:How come no one jumped on this when I proposed ransoming Markkanen if we fell out of the top 3 for a couple firsts (or lotto first & young asset) like 2 months ago?
Y'all got Carey'd again
Bam!
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:13 pm
by O_Gardino
carey wrote:How come no one jumped on this when I proposed ransoming Markkanen if we fell out of the top 3 for a couple firsts (or lotto first & young asset) like 2 months ago?
I'm not sure if anyone trades 2 guys for Markkanen. But I agree with the heart of the deal if there are 2 guys I really like. The team has enough young players that I don't want to bring on young guys unless I really like them, and it has taken me a while to figure out who in the draft I really like.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:00 pm
by In2ition
At this point, my biggest fear is that these perceived "can't miss" prospects become duds and there are a couple players that fall into the mid to late 1st round that end up being the best out of the draft class. I'm sure these are just totally irrational fears and the Suns scouting staff is leaving no stone unturned. I would hate to see them miss out on the next McCollum, Giannis, Gobert, Kawhi, Butler, Thomas, George, Nash, Stockton, Malone, Kobe, Booker ect..., because we are so focused on Ball, Fultz, Jackson, Tatum, Fox.
Re: 2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:00 pm
by In2ition
I thought this was interesting, but obviously not surprising. Only 1 player since the 2013 draft has made an All-star team or an All-NBA team. Maturation and seasoning takes time.