Phx-Suns.Net

SwingMan wrote: You may not be a habitual liar like AIG, but yeah, you're lying about proclaiming you never said "well, he (Randolph) may be the only one who says that, but he spoils the bunch".

And, using your logic and rationale, why isn't anyone coming to YOUR defense?

There's nothing to defend. The post is as I wrote it. If I edited it, I would have had to edit it in all the posts that quoted it as well and that also would be on the logs. Any of the other moderators can check the logs at their leisure and prove to you that I edited and deleted nothing. I've already brought your behavior to their attention. It's going to be either you or me. If they allow you to stick around & act this way after this shit then I will be deleting my account here and posting somewhere else for now on. You think I'd give up the board if I was lying?

carey wrote:

SwingMan wrote: You may not be a habitual liar like AIG, but yeah, you're lying about proclaiming you never said "well, he (Randolph) may be the only one who says that, but he spoils the bunch".

And, using your logic and rationale, why isn't anyone coming to YOUR defense?

There's nothing to defend. The post is as I wrote it. If I edited it, I would have had to edit it in all the posts that quoted it as well and that also would be on the logs. Any of the other moderators can check the logs at their leisure and prove to you that I edited and deleted nothing. I've already brought your behavior to their attention. It's going to be either you or me. If they allow you to stick around & act this way after this shit then I will be deleting my account here and posting somewhere else for now on. You think I'd give up the board if I was lying?

I'd really hope you stay around Carey. You're a good dude and I enjoy reading your posts.

carey wrote:

SwingMan wrote: You may not be a habitual liar like AIG, but yeah, you're lying about proclaiming you never said "well, he (Randolph) may be the only one who says that, but he spoils the bunch".

And, using your logic and rationale, why isn't anyone coming to YOUR defense?

There's nothing to defend. The post is as I wrote it. If I edited it, I would have had to edit it in all the posts that quoted it as well and that also would be on the logs. Any of the other moderators can check the logs at their leisure and prove to you that I edited and deleted nothing. I've already brought your behavior to their attention. It's going to be either you or me. If they allow you to stick around & act this way after this shit then I will be deleting my account here and posting somewhere else for now on. You think I'd give up the board if I was lying?

No - sounds like you're throwing an AIG-like fit because you've been caught.

Shouldn't even have to be an ultimatum involved - it's your choice to bring it to a petulant head, it should affect you and you alone.

Should I have used a little tact in my responses? Perhaps. I'm just sick of the bullshit, is all.

You are both antagonistic people at times.... don't think ANYONE should leave, but thats personal choice. If anyone gets BANNED for such petty shit (.net has ALWAYS had the ability to speak ones mind freely - which i can *personally* attest to) then its something that I can not personally support. I would hate to see it come down to this.

I don't think any posts were deleted.

This all goes back to carey "interpreting" what Randolph said (ie, assuming and putting words in his mouth... i doubt any person with a brain thinks you can "catch" being gay via touch) Then I was called naive to the world (when my statement was made on purpose and exaggerated to show how double sided and hypocritical things have become), and carey had a rather rude response to Aztec ("you can't fucking read!") ...

we all know Swing doesn't know the meaning of tact, but lets not act like this hasn't been contributed to from all sides. Its not worth anyone leaving or getting banned over. Chill.

Phoenix219 wrote:You are both antagonistic people at times.... don't think ANYONE should leave, but thats personal choice. If anyone gets BANNED for such petty shit (.net has ALWAYS had the ability to speak ones mind freely - which i can *personally* attest to) then its something that I can not personally support. I would hate to see it come down to this.

He (carey) can't own up to his own words, so he, instead, wants permission to abuse his moderator powers.

Personally, I don't want to see carey leave - but, if he does, it's his decision and he alone should be responsible for his actions.

For the record, I just edited my above post.

I don't want to see ANY of us leave. Even with ideological differences we still have a common thread as Suns fans. I just have a personal vendetta against hypocrisy. Assumptions can be made in TWO directions. I'm just a fan of balance, transparency, and a *two way* tolerance.

carey wrote:I haven't deleted shit. I'll post the moderator logs. I never even blamed Randolph. You guys need comprehension lessons. The quote above is exactly as I wrote it. A few people with that type of attitude can spoil the bunch. Meaning the entire lockerroom, organization, group or what have you.

So, semantics it is then?

I do not care about fancy moderator logs, neither will talk about what is not or it is in the board. I will talk about this.

First.
You only used the word "Few" later on the argument, when you got trapped by your own previous AFIRMATIONS, wich I mentioned as your double claim toward a GENERALIZATION.

Second
If a recall it right, Americans have this quote from one of their historical figures:

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."
Abraham Lincoln

While you said:
"I wasn't going to say it. But sports is bass ackwards man. I KNOW people think that way"

Correct if I'm wrong, but I firmly believe Lincoln was talking about EVERYONE, doesn't he? Or do I need "comprehension lessons" on Lincoln's quote as well?

But forget about Lincoln.

I'm fully aware of my broken english, in fact I started to post here in order to improve my reading, grammar and writing, and I refuse to use translators reading or writing to force myself to be better, so you could be right about my comprehension. But, brought from spanish grammar, if you start a sentence making a GENERALIZATION (Like you did talking about how "sports is bass ackwards"), then the rest of your sentence must be read it that way, so you can't tell me next to "sports are like this", that "people" only refers to a few. And to boot, you went as far as to claim that you KNOW (capital letter was on you by the way) how people (either everyone or just a "few") actually thinks.

Third
Previously you wrote:
"I'm glad you guys know what he meant. Because "gayness on me" sounds like he thinks it is some sort of disease and that would be reprehensible to me."

Again, you are the one making afirmations (twice during your sentence), while most of the posters you were referring to, included the words "I think", "I guess", I don't think" into their post, myself included. For a guy so worried about reading comprehension, you certainly don't hold yourself to the same standard demanded for the others. You KNOW, what we only guess, and you claim for yourself how "gayness on me" sounds and must be taken into account. Nice pedestal you live in, eh?

Fourth
But until that point, I was fine with your double standard, as I said, it's not right to demand perfection out of everyone. What came to stirr my pot, was when P219, right on the money, remind us about assumptions (nice, catchy phrase by the way) and you proceed to said that you KNOW people, and AIG to call him "naive". Then when he nail you within your semantics, you both comfortably went into backpedaling your inital position, with a diluted "Oh no, I was talking about the few, that spoil the bunch"... way to go strong for your opinion!!!

So I agree with Swingy, either you acknowledge that you over reacted and made generalizations (A very natural reaction to be enraged by something, wrong even if it is a legitimate cause you are supporting) or stop talking, but don't come after us calling stupid or reading challenged. Your agitation calling your innocence, do not hide your double standard, only makes it more evident.

To clarify, I'm only calling you out on this specific matter, I do not pretend to drag this thing out until eternity. I have had little runs with other members around here, but we all are adults, fully capable of leaving in it on one subject at the time, strongly defending our postures and agreeing or disagreeing in different matters.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

carey wrote:I haven't deleted shit. I'll post the moderator logs. I never even blamed Randolph. You guys need comprehension lessons. The quote above is exactly as I wrote it. A few people with that type of attitude can spoil the bunch. Meaning the entire lockerroom, organization, group or what have you.

So, semantics it is then?

I do not care about fancy moderator logs, neither will talk about what is not or it is in the board. I will talk about this.

First.
You only used the word "Few" later on the argument, when you got trapped by your own previous AFIRMATIONS, wich I mentioned as your double claim toward a GENERALIZATION.

Second
If a recall it right, Americans have this quote from one of his historical figures:

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."
Abraham Lincoln

While you said:
"I wasn't going to say it. But sports is bass ackwards man. I KNOW people think that way"

Correct if I'm wrong, but I firmly believe Lincoln was talking about EVERYONE, doesn't he? Or do I need "comprehension lessons" on Lincoln's quote as well?

But forget about Lincoln.

I'm fully aware of my broken english, in fact I started to post here in order to improve my reading, grammar and writing, and I refuse to use translators reading or writing to force myself to be better, so you could be right about my comprehension. But, brought from spanish grammar, if you start a sentence making a GENERALIZATION (Like you did talking about how "sports is bass ackwards"), then the rest of your sentence must be read it that way, so you can't tell me next to "sports are like this", that "people" only refers to a few. And to boot, you went as far as to claim that you KNOW (capital letter was on you by the way) how people (either everyone or just a "few") actually thinks.

Third
Previously you wrote:
"I'm glad you guys know what he meant. Because "gayness on me" sounds like he thinks it is some sort of disease and that would be reprehensible to me."

Again, you are the one making afirmations (twice during your sentence), while most of posters you were referring to included the words "I think", "I guess", I don't think" into their post, myself included? For a guy so worried about reading comprehension, you certainly don't hold yourself to the same standard demanding for the others. You KNOW, what we only guess, and you claim for yourself how "gayness on me" sounds and must be atken into account.

Fourth
But until that point, I was fine with your double standard, as I said, it's not right to demand perfection out of everyone. What came to stirr my pot, was when P219, right on the money, remind us about assumptions (nice, catchy phrase by the way) and you proceed to said that you KNOW people, and AIG to call him "naive". Then when he nail you within your semantics, you both comfortably went into backpedaling your inital position, with a diluted "Oh no, I was talking about the few, that spoil the bunch"... way to go strong for your opinion!!!

So I agree with Swingy, either you acknowledge that you over reacted and made generalizations (A very natural reaction to be enraged by something, wrong even if it is a legitimate cause you are supporting) or stop talking, but don't came after us calling stupid or reading challenged. Your agitation calling your innocence, do not hide your double standard, only makes it more evident.

To clarify, I'm only calling you out on this specific matter, I do not pretend to drag this thing out until eternity. I have had little runs with other members around here, but we all are adults, fully capable of leaving in it on one subject at the time, strongly defending our postures and agreeing or disagreeing in different matters.

Thank you, AS - English is my first and only language, but I can only hope to have half the articulation you've displayed.

Again, I probably could've used more tact - just grew sick of the bullshit and my apologies for my part in blowing this discussion to the current level.

Phoenix219 wrote:For the record, I just edited my above post.

I don't want to see ANY of us leave. Even with ideological differences we still have a common thread as Suns fans. I just have a personal vendetta against hypocrisy. Assumptions can be made in TWO directions. I'm just a fan of balance, transparency, and a *two way* tolerance.

For the record, I hope you stick around, 219 - especially when we snag The Matrix at vet minimum for 3/4 insurance later on this off-season.

SwingMan wrote:

Phoenix219 wrote:For the record, I just edited my above post.

I don't want to see ANY of us leave. Even with ideological differences we still have a common thread as Suns fans. I just have a personal vendetta against hypocrisy. Assumptions can be made in TWO directions. I'm just a fan of balance, transparency, and a *two way* tolerance.

For the record, I hope you stick around, 219 - especially when we snag The Matrix at vet minimum for 3/4 insurance later on this off-season.

man, don't even put ideas in my head.... .i put that to rest years ago.

Damn you Swing

Someone gave me an advice a long time ago, that it would translate moreso like this:

"If you are going to run a big mouth, you better have a short tail, and a thick skin"

As in, if you are going to call out other people and throw verbal daggers, prepare to be put under the microscope, and prepare to resist heavy artillery fire on your way.

It disrupts a true interaction, when some of the sides puts ultimatums everytime the heat goes up. I don't see reasons for stop posting by a trivial discussion (even if it is on a very big matter) neither I see the necesity to announce it to the world. I certainly won't feel remorse about run somebody out just because I call something as I see it. If someday I grow sick of the enviroment, I will call it first, as I already did it once, when the rebuild vs reload posting war was out of control, calling ignorants to those willing to keep Nash and Hill on the team. After that, but not conditioned to the .net pledging to my position, if thing still are going bad, then I just will leave, without asking for a parade.

It's a sad thing when the ignore button enter into play, or when somebody grow sick of the interaction he gets around here and leaves, but announcing a departure, to me is kind of blackmailing the rest of the community, especially when it comes as a result of an especific interaction with one member alone, instead from a general conduct.

I join P219 into asking for a reconsideration on the recent announcements, but I refuse to apologize for my words, as they were directed to respond direct attacks on me. So Carey, do whatever suits you.

Wally_West wrote:

carey wrote:

SwingMan wrote: You may not be a habitual liar like AIG, but yeah, you're lying about proclaiming you never said "well, he (Randolph) may be the only one who says that, but he spoils the bunch".

And, using your logic and rationale, why isn't anyone coming to YOUR defense?

There's nothing to defend. The post is as I wrote it. If I edited it, I would have had to edit it in all the posts that quoted it as well and that also would be on the logs. Any of the other moderators can check the logs at their leisure and prove to you that I edited and deleted nothing. I've already brought your behavior to their attention. It's going to be either you or me. If they allow you to stick around & act this way after this shit then I will be deleting my account here and posting somewhere else for now on. You think I'd give up the board if I was lying?

I'd really hope you stay around Carey. You're a good dude and I enjoy reading your posts.

Please don't leave. You are a huge part of this, a huge contributor and a terrific poster, something not everybody can say.

I don't know what's going on since page 80. I was going to send Carey a PM telling him that I don't understand why he is getting so much flak, but I'll just post here.

We are just a few on here so ignoring frequent posters is far from ideal, but next step for me is putting people on mute and if that doesn't get it done, then it is leaving for good (no parades, though) because I find discussions like this one so unbecoming and it is turning into a recurrent theme.

You guys will have to explain me how the stuff below can trigger the kind of reactions that are cluttering this thread because I just can't see it

'I'm glad you guys know what he meant. Because "gayness on me" sounds like he thinks it is some sort of disease and that would be reprehensible to me.'

'Let's not act like he would be the first person in sports to think that way.'

'I wasn't going to say it. But sports is bass ackwards man. I KNOW people think that way.'

...so??

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Wally_West wrote:

carey wrote:

SwingMan wrote: You may not be a habitual liar like AIG, but yeah, you're lying about proclaiming you never said "well, he (Randolph) may be the only one who says that, but he spoils the bunch".

And, using your logic and rationale, why isn't anyone coming to YOUR defense?

There's nothing to defend. The post is as I wrote it. If I edited it, I would have had to edit it in all the posts that quoted it as well and that also would be on the logs. Any of the other moderators can check the logs at their leisure and prove to you that I edited and deleted nothing. I've already brought your behavior to their attention. It's going to be either you or me. If they allow you to stick around & act this way after this shit then I will be deleting my account here and posting somewhere else for now on. You think I'd give up the board if I was lying?

I'd really hope you stay around Carey. You're a good dude and I enjoy reading your posts.

Please don't leave. You are a huge part of this, a huge contributor and a terrific poster, something not everybody can say.

I don't know what's going on since page 80. I was going to send Carey a PM telling him that I don't understand why he is getting so much flak, but I'll just post here.

We are just a few on here so ignoring frequent posters is far from ideal, but next step for me is putting people on mute and if that doesn't get it done, then it is leaving for good (no parades, though) because I find discussions like this one so unbecoming and it is turning into a recurrent theme.

You guys will have to explain me how the stuff below can trigger the kind of reactions that are cluttering this thread because I just can't see it

'I'm glad you guys know what he meant. Because "gayness on me" sounds like he thinks it is some sort of disease and that would be reprehensible to me.'

'Let's not act like he would be the first person in sports to think that way.'

'I wasn't going to say it. But sports is bass ackwards man. I KNOW people think that way.'

...so??

Where I chose to squawk is when carey started attacking AS and it snowballed from there - again, my apologies for my part in escalating this discussion to the current level.

Wish I'd done so earlier to capture carey's original post (the "spoils the bunch" post I referred to) before it disappeared.....

R_W,

I feel obligated to explain myself. You missed the part when Carey, took his french out for a ride, with me as his passenger.

carey wrote:How the fuck does that mean everyone? You can't fucking read dude. "A few" & "people" mean everyone?

Just after he got questioned by P219 and me into his own words.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

carey wrote:

Phoenix219 wrote:You KNOWING that is as much as an assumption as the reverse. Obviously, people don't come out and admit that stuff, because they get trashed and called out for it. You're assuming based on stereotypes and past examples, that everyone in sports is like that now. Not saying that you're *wrong*... but it is a stereotype and assumption on your part.

Just keeping a balanced perspective...

Nope. Never said everyone. In fact it's probably only a few, but they spoil the bunch.

Yes you did, TWICE.

carey wrote:I wasn't going to say it. But sports is bass ackwards man. I KNOW people think that way.

carey wrote:I'm glad you guys know what he meant. Because "gayness on me" sounds like he thinks it is some sort of disease and that would be reprehensible to me.

This one is not on Swingman, he enter until later into the argument and I must say, in a relatively conciliatory tone.

SwingMan wrote:

carey wrote:How the fuck does that mean everyone? You can't fucking read dude. "A few" & "people" mean everyone?

You need to unpucker, carey - and you need to quit deleting your incriminating posts & take deserved criticism like a man.

You said something the other night in this thread to the effect of "well, he (Randolph) may be the only one who says that, but he spoils the bunch" - I think that's more the jist of what AS was referring to.

Talk about painting with a brush about as narrow as a steam roller barrel.

But then reputations were called into discusion and everything scalated, including a boring essay from me, showing Carey how full of crap his position was. Swingman already recognizes that he played a role on this, but it is unfair to keep asking the guy for an apology everytime someone deliberatively engages with him, fully aware that "kind words" are not his first choice to go, and then get bruises.

I don't think I cherry pick the quotes, but I invite everyone to do another post wiht their own point of view.

I think carey got more annoyed when Swing accused him of deleting things, which i actually think may be a misunderstanding on Swing's part, but since the argument was over principles, assumptions, and, as aztec said, semantics, the core argument remains the same.

This shouldn't cause anyone to leave, and *no one* wants to see that happen, but it sure as hell shouldn't be a bannable offense by anyone involved.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:R_W,

I feel obligated to explain myself. You missed the part when Carey, took his french out for a ride, with me as his passenger.

carey wrote:How the fuck does that mean everyone? You can't fucking read dude. "A few" & "people" mean everyone?

Just after he got questioned by P219 and me into his own words.

If I am not mistaken, the three lines I quoted from Carey were the first three things he said on this absurd matter.

219 made a point against generalizing: 'You're assuming based on stereotypes and past examples, that everyone in sports is like that now.'

Ok, but you know what? I fail to see where Carey categorized that way. He said he knows 'people do that'. People, as in, multiple persons, many persons, not 'every person' (in sports, of course). That's how it came to me, how I read that, and I didn't have to put any effort into it.

Maybe I am the one who can't read.

The F bomb after your post probably was not necessary, though.

AIG was attacked without provocation. There is no excuse for that. The behavior on this board on these last few pages is going to drive away traffic. It's no fun for anybody. Let's get back to talking Suns basketball.

What I think, is that Carey saw a rope to hang on on the "deleting thing", and use it as a getaway from his previous insults and to distract the attention from his internally flawed argument, as he tried to pull the same semantics about how "people" is closer to "few", than it is to "everyone", and therefore is not a generalization. I won't qualify your reading skills R_W, but if you are willing to waste precious moments of your life reading my lenghty post at the end of page 85, maybe you will get a better grip on my position here.

And excuse me P219, I'm not as big as you, into let someone calling me TWICE retarded on my reading, therefore invalidating any point of view I could express on any matter, and then let him cry away from his own doing. I already saw Swingman apologizing at leats 3 times, but Mr Carey left the building without doing any resemblance of autocritic. And as much as I usually share his point of view, this time he crossed a line.

As Swingman said, you have to either OWN YOUR WORDS, or shut up.

No, I agree that was completely inappropriate; I felt that way the first time I saw it. Thats where Swing got involved, but as colorful as his words can be, I didn't see anything that crossed the line.

Swing vs. AIG is ancient and I just stay out of that.

I was just on realgm and people are just as rude to each other over there, and i'm not even going to mention spurstalk. I highly doubt a minor spat in the off season is going to drive people away. Swing has apologized, Aztec has spoken his mind, and its only still active to explain to Ring. We were already back to basketball to an extent, and I agree, 'bone, lets keep it here.

Sooooo, this Laker's trade.... Instead of Hill can we Get Nash back with Randle and a draft pick and sign Matrix to ride the bench? I WISH I WAS McD RIGHT NOW!!!!

Superbone wrote:AIG was attacked without provocation. There is no excuse for that. The behavior on this board on these last few pages is going to drive away traffic. It's no fun for anybody. Let's get back to talking Suns basketball.

I prefer to think of it as nipping it in the bud - i.e. cutting AIG off before he fully geared up to start trying to pile on, as he's got a history of stirring the shitpot, then tucking tail in hopes another will fight his fight for him. Whether or not you acknowledge the history there is besides the point.

But I fully agree with your last sentence - thanks to the articulation (and diplomacy) of AS and further clarification by 219, I think the point has been made and the discussion has run its course.

To refer to a point AS made, I'm a Golden Rule guy, but once shit starts getting slung, don't be surprised when I give out with a serving of the same to the ones who slung in the first place.