Re: Biden 2024
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 5:16 am
Sounds like good news…seems like the democrats should rally behind one choice quickly if they want any chance of beating Trump though
Cmonnnn
I think the idea is that some states could challenge Biden stepping aside because they've already had their primaries. The delegates from those states are theoretically supposed to go to the Dem convention and vote for Joe Biden, and if Biden drops out and the delegates just all agree to vote for Kamala instead, somebody (e.g. GOP) could challenge that and say that they're violating their duty as delegates. Or if the party holds some kind of flash primary where they pick a new candidate, same thing; the delegates were voted in so that they could vote for Biden, not some other candidate, so it could theoretically be challenged or go to court. Which could then get appealed, and appealed again, ... until it was at SCOTUS, who are not exactly impartial or fans of Biden or the Dems. So then everything would become a complete clusterfuck.
There's a big difference between being fit to serve out a few more months and being fit to serve 4.5 more years. It's also quite turbulent to change Presidents in the middle of a term; you have to change a bunch of other positions and staff and policies and so on.BigLewy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:12 amSo, if Biden withdraws, but doesn't also renounce his presidency, how is that democratic? That's basically saying that because he's unpopular in the polls and the Democratic elite will do anything to stop a Trump presidency, he has to step down (being forced out by Obama, Pelosi, etc.). If he's not mentally fit to have a second term, how is he mentally fit right now? It isn't like Election Day is 2 years from now. He was supposedly voted in during the Democratic primary, so shouldn't democracy prevail since that was the vote? Or does the "threat to democracy" only apply to Trump? I'm no Trump fan but this is all hilarious to me because if he was polling well and could complete a sentence at the debate, all of the Dems would be rallying behind him like never before. Instead, they're in full-fledged panic mode and are leaking left and right that he needs to withdraw his candidacy so that the "new Hitler" won't destroy the country.
Anything other than Biden stepping down as president AND withdrawing from the upcoming election just reeks of yanking him because of the likelihood of Trump winning.
If SCOTUS does something so blatantly partisan...Mori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:17 amI think the idea is that some states could challenge Biden stepping aside because they've already had their primaries. The delegates from those states are theoretically supposed to go to the Dem convention and vote for Joe Biden, and if Biden drops out and the delegates just all agree to vote for Kamala instead, somebody (e.g. GOP) could challenge that and say that they're violating their duty as delegates. Or if the party holds some kind of flash primary where they pick a new candidate, same thing; the delegates were voted in so that they could vote for Biden, not some other candidate, so it could theoretically be challenged or go to court. Which could then get appealed, and appealed again, ... until it was at SCOTUS, who are not exactly impartial or fans of Biden or the Dems. So then everything would become a complete clusterfuck.
I don't really know the legal ramifications or whether it would actually turn out like that, just relaying what I have heard that AOC or others have argued.
It’s weird to me that there isn’t precedent already established for what happens when a candidate steps down after the primary but before a general election. The SCOTUS forcing Biden to stay in the race would be laughableMori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:17 amI think the idea is that some states could challenge Biden stepping aside because they've already had their primaries. The delegates from those states are theoretically supposed to go to the Dem convention and vote for Joe Biden, and if Biden drops out and the delegates just all agree to vote for Kamala instead, somebody (e.g. GOP) could challenge that and say that they're violating their duty as delegates. Or if the party holds some kind of flash primary where they pick a new candidate, same thing; the delegates were voted in so that they could vote for Biden, not some other candidate, so it could theoretically be challenged or go to court. Which could then get appealed, and appealed again, ... until it was at SCOTUS, who are not exactly impartial or fans of Biden or the Dems. So then everything would become a complete clusterfuck.
I don't really know the legal ramifications or whether it would actually turn out like that, just relaying what I have heard that AOC or others have argued.
Totally disagree. He's fine to finish out his term. He's just not fit for another 4 years.BigLewy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:12 amSo, if Biden withdraws, but doesn't also renounce his presidency, how is that democratic? That's basically saying that because he's unpopular in the polls and the Democratic elite will do anything to stop a Trump presidency, he has to step down (being forced out by Obama, Pelosi, etc.). If he's not mentally fit to have a second term, how is he mentally fit right now? It isn't like Election Day is 2 years from now. He was supposedly voted in during the Democratic primary, so shouldn't democracy prevail since that was the vote? Or does the "threat to democracy" only apply to Trump? I'm no Trump fan but this is all hilarious to me because if he was polling well and could complete a sentence at the debate, all of the Dems would be rallying behind him like never before. Instead, they're in full-fledged panic mode and are leaking left and right that he needs to withdraw his candidacy so that the "new Hitler" won't destroy the country.
Anything other than Biden stepping down as president AND withdrawing from the upcoming election just reeks of yanking him because of the likelihood of Trump winning.
The whole world saw Biden at the debate and I would guess most of the people on planet earth saw him as an old feeble man who can barely string together a coherent sentence. They are trying to yank him as the Dem nominee because they know he isn’t up to the task. Even the poorest Dem on welfare can see that. He is no longer fit to be president. Trump isn’t fit to be President because he’s a lying cheating sexual assaulting con man criminal. Cons don’t care what shitty things Trump does or did. To them he is a saint chosen by god. Cons can make up as many conspiracy theories as they like about Biden. It’s meaningless.BigLewy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:12 amSo, if Biden withdraws, but doesn't also renounce his presidency, how is that democratic? That's basically saying that because he's unpopular in the polls and the Democratic elite will do anything to stop a Trump presidency, he has to step down (being forced out by Obama, Pelosi, etc.). If he's not mentally fit to have a second term, how is he mentally fit right now? It isn't like Election Day is 2 years from now. He was supposedly voted in during the Democratic primary, so shouldn't democracy prevail since that was the vote? Or does the "threat to democracy" only apply to Trump? I'm no Trump fan but this is all hilarious to me because if he was polling well and could complete a sentence at the debate, all of the Dems would be rallying behind him like never before. Instead, they're in full-fledged panic mode and are leaking left and right that he needs to withdraw his candidacy so that the "new Hitler" won't destroy the country.
Anything other than Biden stepping down as president AND withdrawing from the upcoming election just reeks of yanking him because of the likelihood of Trump winning.
I don't know if she's right, but she certainly could be. It would suck if it turned into a 1 day, in-person, paper ballot, hand counted, voter id special election, to mitigate any fraud.Mori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:01 amInterestingly, AOC did a nearly hour-long Instagram Live video stream last night where she said she's worried that Biden stepping down will be a bad thing. I haven't watched it and have only seen summaries, but it sounds like she thinks the push to remove Biden comes from elites and rich donors, and that if he's removed, there'll be chaos and infighting and it could end up being challenged in court and sent to the not-Dem-friendly SCOTUS. I don't know if I agree with any of that, but that seems to be her take.
Cons don't care, because it's obviously a bunch a lies by Dems. Cons don't think he's a saint or anything silly that Dems dream up about him.Nodack wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:35 amThe whole world saw Biden at the debate and I would guess most of the people on planet earth saw him as an old feeble man who can barely string together a coherent sentence. They are trying to yank him as the Dem nominee because they know he isn’t up to the task. Even the poorest Dem on welfare can see that. He is no longer fit to be president. Trump isn’t fit to be President because he’s a lying cheating sexual assaulting con man criminal. Cons don’t care what shitty things Trump does or did. To them he is a saint chosen by god. Cons can make up as many conspiracy theories as they like about Biden. It’s meaningless.BigLewy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:12 amSo, if Biden withdraws, but doesn't also renounce his presidency, how is that democratic? That's basically saying that because he's unpopular in the polls and the Democratic elite will do anything to stop a Trump presidency, he has to step down (being forced out by Obama, Pelosi, etc.). If he's not mentally fit to have a second term, how is he mentally fit right now? It isn't like Election Day is 2 years from now. He was supposedly voted in during the Democratic primary, so shouldn't democracy prevail since that was the vote? Or does the "threat to democracy" only apply to Trump? I'm no Trump fan but this is all hilarious to me because if he was polling well and could complete a sentence at the debate, all of the Dems would be rallying behind him like never before. Instead, they're in full-fledged panic mode and are leaking left and right that he needs to withdraw his candidacy so that the "new Hitler" won't destroy the country.
Anything other than Biden stepping down as president AND withdrawing from the upcoming election just reeks of yanking him because of the likelihood of Trump winning.
I've predicted in the past, that he makes it through the Democrat Convention and then withdraws, so the rules allow the Dem committee can pick the candidate without a primary vote by other Dems. This allows them to stick a Candidate in that wasn't necessarily great to Dem voters, but those in charge want, and Biden's money transfers to them and possibly the Dem voters would vote for Biden, knowing they were voting for the new popular Dem candidate.Mori Chu wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:17 amI think the idea is that some states could challenge Biden stepping aside because they've already had their primaries. The delegates from those states are theoretically supposed to go to the Dem convention and vote for Joe Biden, and if Biden drops out and the delegates just all agree to vote for Kamala instead, somebody (e.g. GOP) could challenge that and say that they're violating their duty as delegates. Or if the party holds some kind of flash primary where they pick a new candidate, same thing; the delegates were voted in so that they could vote for Biden, not some other candidate, so it could theoretically be challenged or go to court. Which could then get appealed, and appealed again, ... until it was at SCOTUS, who are not exactly impartial or fans of Biden or the Dems. So then everything would become a complete clusterfuck.
I don't really know the legal ramifications or whether it would actually turn out like that, just relaying what I have heard that AOC or others have argued.