Phx-Suns.Net

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:45 am

Cap wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:41 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:32 am

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:10 am

We definitely are in a fairly hopeless state right now.

However, I'm still thrilled that we pulled a rabbit out of a hat like that. Did we sacrifice some potential future possibilities? We absolutely did. But we also did create chances for the next few years that we otherwise wouldn't have had at all.

I think the most crippling thing right now is the 2nd apron, and of course there's no guarantee that we can get below it if we are constantly chasing second or third max stars and paying them said maxes. But if we ever do get under it, the creativity that this front office has managed over the last couple of years has me cautiously optimistic that we can maybe at least remain in the lower seed playoff hunt with our current dearth of picks.

This is why I don't entirely grasp the rampant pessimism or some of the Ishbia slander.

Mat Ishbia didn't buy a basketball team to tank. Clearly he can't buy a championship (because no one really can in this NBA), but to think he's just going to sit back and accept sucking for one or several years is being selectively tone deaf. As far as I can tell, he will always try to put a competitive product on the court with the goal of winning a title. Why are people so bitter about that?

We’re still on the “Ishbia won’t let it happen” thing? It’s happening now.

What is happening? They lose a pick in the late teens to twenties in the next draft?

The team is sucking. The thing you just said won’t happen because Ish won’t accept it.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:01 am

I saw someone float a trade idea that had Nurk in it as well and rerouted Portis to us…

Something like Butler/Portis to Phoenix
Beal to Milwaukee
Bruce Brown, Poeltl to Miami
Middleton/Nurk to Toronto

Something like that…there was certainly some other parts…but that’s very interesting to me. I don’t even think Miami needs a pick in that trade. Toronto certainly does…they might need 2. Then Milwaukee gets one for taking Beal.

Booker/Allen/Butler/Durant/Richards
Jones/O’Neale/Dunn/Portis/Ighodora

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

Cap wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:00 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:45 am

Cap wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:41 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:32 am

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:10 am

We definitely are in a fairly hopeless state right now.

However, I'm still thrilled that we pulled a rabbit out of a hat like that. Did we sacrifice some potential future possibilities? We absolutely did. But we also did create chances for the next few years that we otherwise wouldn't have had at all.

I think the most crippling thing right now is the 2nd apron, and of course there's no guarantee that we can get below it if we are constantly chasing second or third max stars and paying them said maxes. But if we ever do get under it, the creativity that this front office has managed over the last couple of years has me cautiously optimistic that we can maybe at least remain in the lower seed playoff hunt with our current dearth of picks.

This is why I don't entirely grasp the rampant pessimism or some of the Ishbia slander.

Mat Ishbia didn't buy a basketball team to tank. Clearly he can't buy a championship (because no one really can in this NBA), but to think he's just going to sit back and accept sucking for one or several years is being selectively tone deaf. As far as I can tell, he will always try to put a competitive product on the court with the goal of winning a title. Why are people so bitter about that?

We’re still on the “Ishbia won’t let it happen” thing? It’s happening now.

What is happening? They lose a pick in the late teens to twenties in the next draft?

The team is sucking. The thing you just said won’t happen because Ish won’t accept it.

Define "sucking" for me so I know where to start.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:01 am

I saw someone float a trade idea that had Nurk in it as well and rerouted Portis to us…

Something like Butler/Portis to Phoenix
Beal to Milwaukee
Bruce Brown, Poeltl to Miami
Middleton/Nurk to Toronto

Something like that…there was certainly some other parts…but that’s very interesting to me. I don’t even think Miami needs a pick in that trade. Toronto certainly does…they might need 2. Then Milwaukee gets one for taking Beal.

Booker/Allen/Butler/Durant/Richards
Jones/O’Neale/Dunn/Portis/Ighodora

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Cap wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:41 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:32 am

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:10 am

We definitely are in a fairly hopeless state right now.

However, I'm still thrilled that we pulled a rabbit out of a hat like that. Did we sacrifice some potential future possibilities? We absolutely did. But we also did create chances for the next few years that we otherwise wouldn't have had at all.

I think the most crippling thing right now is the 2nd apron, and of course there's no guarantee that we can get below it if we are constantly chasing second or third max stars and paying them said maxes. But if we ever do get under it, the creativity that this front office has managed over the last couple of years has me cautiously optimistic that we can maybe at least remain in the lower seed playoff hunt with our current dearth of picks.

This is why I don't entirely grasp the rampant pessimism or some of the Ishbia slander.

Mat Ishbia didn't buy a basketball team to tank. Clearly he can't buy a championship (because no one really can in this NBA), but to think he's just going to sit back and accept sucking for one or several years is being selectively tone deaf. As far as I can tell, he will always try to put a competitive product on the court with the goal of winning a title. Why are people so bitter about that?

We’re still on the “Ishbia won’t let it happen” thing?

Cap's twitching again, someone ctrl+alt+del him.


Nobody is saying he won't fail. Everyone is saying he is not going to sit on his hands. They have been incredibly creative and proactive to try and turn the tide.

He is married to the idea of KD. Stop whining about it. I fucking hate it too and want this molding aging soft superstar gone, but it is what it is. He invested heavily in him and he's going to exhaust all resources to try and make it work. In that context, you have to applaud the effort to continue to maneuver gloriously along the extreme restrictions that are in place to make this team competitive.

I have no doubt that he will continue to be active and when the time comes and it's obvious to HIM at that point as an owner that his efforts are futile, he will be creative and actively shifting to build toward a NEW competitive roster.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:01 am

I saw someone float a trade idea that had Nurk in it as well and rerouted Portis to us…

Something like Butler/Portis to Phoenix
Beal to Milwaukee
Bruce Brown, Poeltl to Miami
Middleton/Nurk to Toronto

Something like that…there was certainly some other parts…but that’s very interesting to me. I don’t even think Miami needs a pick in that trade. Toronto certainly does…they might need 2. Then Milwaukee gets one for taking Beal.

Booker/Allen/Butler/Durant/Richards
Jones/O’Neale/Dunn/Portis/Ighodora

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Bruh, the Cavs are first or second round fodder waiting to happen. That team has regular season trophy written all OVER it. I'll bet anything you want. If the Cavs make it to the finals I'll delete my account for you.

You don't know it's not possible anymore than I know it is possible. We don't know if they even made a call. I would guess a call hasn't been made to the Rockets because trading KD is a non-starter for the Suns. They're not entertaining all possibilities because a reset isn't a possibility for ownership.

And I never said I gave up hope as a fan. I'm unhappy with the current direction and strategy of the org. Big difference.

I'm also not carrying on as if I were owner. I'm pointing out specific instances where this hasn't worked out for previous new owners and think our new guy should learn from those situations.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:07 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:01 am

I saw someone float a trade idea that had Nurk in it as well and rerouted Portis to us…

Something like Butler/Portis to Phoenix
Beal to Milwaukee
Bruce Brown, Poeltl to Miami
Middleton/Nurk to Toronto

Something like that…there was certainly some other parts…but that’s very interesting to me. I don’t even think Miami needs a pick in that trade. Toronto certainly does…they might need 2. Then Milwaukee gets one for taking Beal.

Booker/Allen/Butler/Durant/Richards
Jones/O’Neale/Dunn/Portis/Ighodora

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Bruh, the Cavs are first or second round fodder waiting to happen. That team has regular season trophy written all OVER it. I'll bet anything you want. If the Cavs make it to the finals I'll delete my account for you.

IDK why you're quoting me. I agree.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:01 am

I saw someone float a trade idea that had Nurk in it as well and rerouted Portis to us…

Something like Butler/Portis to Phoenix
Beal to Milwaukee
Bruce Brown, Poeltl to Miami
Middleton/Nurk to Toronto

Something like that…there was certainly some other parts…but that’s very interesting to me. I don’t even think Miami needs a pick in that trade. Toronto certainly does…they might need 2. Then Milwaukee gets one for taking Beal.

Booker/Allen/Butler/Durant/Richards
Jones/O’Neale/Dunn/Portis/Ighodora

This moves me.

I think this type of stuff why the trade hasn’t officially gone down yet. The big parts are worked out. Butler to Suns, Beal to MIL, Heat getting players from TOR/ MIL, now it’s all the secondary parts, which why people talking it could be 5 teams, everyone is wondering if they can get in and what else can we get?

These things take time…




…But also I think it gets done well before Feb 6th, everyone is going to want to see what they can do with their new assets or what should add now.

Them shams tweets are gonna be long

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:30 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:32 am

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:10 am

We definitely are in a fairly hopeless state right now.

However, I'm still thrilled that we pulled a rabbit out of a hat like that. Did we sacrifice some potential future possibilities? We absolutely did. But we also did create chances for the next few years that we otherwise wouldn't have had at all.

I think the most crippling thing right now is the 2nd apron, and of course there's no guarantee that we can get below it if we are constantly chasing second or third max stars and paying them said maxes. But if we ever do get under it, the creativity that this front office has managed over the last couple of years has me cautiously optimistic that we can maybe at least remain in the lower seed playoff hunt with our current dearth of picks.

This is why I don't entirely grasp the rampant pessimism or some of the Ishbia slander.

Mat Ishbia didn't buy a basketball team to tank. Clearly he can't buy a championship (because no one really can in this NBA), but to think he's just going to sit back and accept sucking for one or several years is being selectively tone deaf. As far as I can tell, he will always try to put a competitive product on the court with the goal of winning a title. Why are people so bitter about that?

This is the extreme argument I've seen from just about every local media/fan account and I don't get it. It doesn't have to be feast or famine. It's not title or tank. There is a way to build properly and competitively, which we just did a few years ago. It feels like people are making this "either/or" to protect Ishbia for some weird reason. He's acting no different than Allen, Cuban, Dolan, Prokherov, Ballmer when they came into the league. "We should be on our hands and knees thanking Ish for spending like this and shouldn't take it for granted". I'd rather an owner spend wisely and build a properly balanced team that's competitive for the long haul. Maybe we'll get there after this current run.

Cuban won a championship and his team has been competitive almost every year.

Ballmer has gotten extremely close multiple times. That clippers roster is just snakebit between Paul/Griffin injuries and now Kawhi. That is a damn good organization.

I'll take either of those owners over the OKC ownership, whoever the hell owns the Wizards, Hornets, etc. New Orleans is a perfect example of rebuild and get nowhere after all those years.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:08 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:07 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Bruh, the Cavs are first or second round fodder waiting to happen. That team has regular season trophy written all OVER it. I'll bet anything you want. If the Cavs make it to the finals I'll delete my account for you.

IDK why you're quoting me. I agree.

Sorry man. I was more like standing behind you and shouting in agreement toward him lol.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:07 am

You don't know it's not possible anymore than I know it is possible. We don't know if they even made a call. I would guess a call hasn't been made to the Rockets because trading KD is a non-starter for the Suns. They're not entertaining all possibilities because a reset isn't a possibility for ownership.

And I never said I gave up hope as a fan. I'm unhappy with the current direction and strategy of the org. Big difference.

I'm also not carrying on as if I were owner. I'm pointing out specific instances where this hasn't worked out for previous new owners and think our new guy should learn from those situations.

Com'on, Amen Thompson is fantastic. In a salary cap-free league, sure it's possible, but they'd have to give up so much more in salary to make it work that it's clearly impossible.

I'm glad you haven't given up hope. I guess all I want is a little less gloom from fans who I know where we've been.

You only get Amen Thompson if Houston is signing SGA and SGA isn’t coming unless they also trade for KD

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:08 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:07 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Bruh, the Cavs are first or second round fodder waiting to happen. That team has regular season trophy written all OVER it. I'll bet anything you want. If the Cavs make it to the finals I'll delete my account for you.

IDK why you're quoting me. I agree.

I disagree with both of you. I think the Cavs scream regular season team to me, remember the 64 win suns team? How that work out?

No one asked you Wally.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:01 am

I saw someone float a trade idea that had Nurk in it as well and rerouted Portis to us…

Something like Butler/Portis to Phoenix
Beal to Milwaukee
Bruce Brown, Poeltl to Miami
Middleton/Nurk to Toronto

Something like that…there was certainly some other parts…but that’s very interesting to me. I don’t even think Miami needs a pick in that trade. Toronto certainly does…they might need 2. Then Milwaukee gets one for taking Beal.

Booker/Allen/Butler/Durant/Richards
Jones/O’Neale/Dunn/Portis/Ighodora

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Agreed but in order to reach the playoffs we do need to win some regular season games first. Bringing an aging and increasingly injury prone Butler in may not guarantee you win sufficient games to reach the post season. If we're relying on Book and Durant to do it on their own......well we've seen enough this season to know they don't have enough.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:26 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

Spoiler: show/hide

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:01 am

I saw someone float a trade idea that had Nurk in it as well and rerouted Portis to us…

Something like Butler/Portis to Phoenix
Beal to Milwaukee
Bruce Brown, Poeltl to Miami
Middleton/Nurk to Toronto

Something like that…there was certainly some other parts…but that’s very interesting to me. I don’t even think Miami needs a pick in that trade. Toronto certainly does…they might need 2. Then Milwaukee gets one for taking Beal.

Booker/Allen/Butler/Durant/Richards
Jones/O’Neale/Dunn/Portis/Ighodora

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Agreed but in order to reach the playoffs we do need to win some regular season games first. Bringing an aging and increasingly injury prone Butler in may not guarantee you win sufficient games to reach the post season. If we're relying on Book and Durant to do it on their own......well we've seen enough this season to know they don't have enough.

They'd need to win enough regular season games to make the playoffs.

I'm not optimistic about Butler in the long term, but this season, I think he'd improve the win total beyond our current .500 standing. Do you think acquiring Butler would make us a losing team this season?

All the Jimmy Butler trade latest
What the Suns’ Tuesday night trade means for Butler’s future in Miami

https://marcstein.substack.com/p/all-th ... ade-latest

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

All the Jimmy Butler trade latest
What the Suns’ Tuesday night trade means for Butler’s future in Miami

https://marcstein.substack.com/p/all-th ... ade-latest

Not your fault, but care to post the text that otherwise requires a paid sub?

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:26 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

Spoiler: show/hide

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:21 am

I think we're title contenders if we somehow swap Beal and Nurkic for Butler and Portis.

Spoiler: show/hide

Try not to choke on your tea while you mock my Portis 180, INF.

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Agreed but in order to reach the playoffs we do need to win some regular season games first. Bringing an aging and increasingly injury prone Butler in may not guarantee you win sufficient games to reach the post season. If we're relying on Book and Durant to do it on their own......well we've seen enough this season to know they don't have enough.

They'd need to win enough regular season games to make the playoffs.

I'm not optimistic about Butler in the long term, but this season, I think he'd improve the win total beyond our current .500 standing. Do you think acquiring Butler would make us a losing team this season?

No, I'm with you on that, I agree he'd improve the win total beyond .500. I just don't know that it will be sufficient to get us into the post season. I hope I'm wrong, but the way things have panned out over the past year and a half it's tough to envision that this won't result in more of the same.