Phx-Suns.Net

Superbone wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Cap wrote:We offered Len the QO and are waiting to hear back? That's it? We haven't even offered a multi-year deal?

Come on. For all of Len's flaws, I'd definitely offer him more than 4.2/1. Opening with nothing more than the QO is an insult.

I kind of agree. Williams gets more $ that after playing half the minutes. Len has to be looking at the Williams contract and thinking he at least gets that.

My understanding is that only the first year of Williams' deal is guaranteed.

Yep, that's what someone here said. Probably Carey.

I'm glad we aren't bidding against ourselves. There's not a big market for Len. But from his perspective, it's got to be a tough pill to swallow.

In2ition wrote:I thought this was an interesting trade proposal.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/07/27/ ... enix-suns/

The problems I see are that New York gives up too much, basically gutting their team, but maybe they would like to do that. The other problem is that it's been reported that Melo has his heart set on Houston and refuses to waive his no trade clause for any team other than Houston. From the Suns perspective, I think they would probably do it. I'm not sure that Cleveland would do it, as they believe that they should get a Kings ransom for Kyrie.

Very nice trade. If we could do it without giving up both 2018 picks, I'd be all in.

O_Gardino wrote:

In2ition wrote:I thought this was an interesting trade proposal.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/07/27/ ... enix-suns/

The problems I see are that New York gives up too much, basically gutting their team, but maybe they would like to do that. The other problem is that it's been reported that Melo has his heart set on Houston and refuses to waive his no trade clause for any team other than Houston. From the Suns perspective, I think they would probably do it. I'm not sure that Cleveland would do it, as they believe that they should get a Kings ransom for Kyrie.

Very nice trade. If we could do it without giving up both 2018 picks, I'd be all in.

It does have top 5 protection

In2ition wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

In2ition wrote:I thought this was an interesting trade proposal.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/07/27/ ... enix-suns/

The problems I see are that New York gives up too much, basically gutting their team, but maybe they would like to do that. The other problem is that it's been reported that Melo has his heart set on Houston and refuses to waive his no trade clause for any team other than Houston. From the Suns perspective, I think they would probably do it. I'm not sure that Cleveland would do it, as they believe that they should get a Kings ransom for Kyrie.

Very nice trade. If we could do it without giving up both 2018 picks, I'd be all in.

It does have top 5 protection

Would Booker / Jackson / KP be enough to get us some wins? That team has an honestly decent chance of getting a top 5 pick.

Ulis / Frank / James
Booker / Reed / Shumpert
Jackson / DJJ
KP / Bender / Dudley / Frye
Williams / Bender(?) / Len(?) / Noah

In2ition wrote:I thought this was an interesting trade proposal.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/07/27/ ... enix-suns/

The problems I see are that New York gives up too much, basically gutting their team, but maybe they would like to do that. The other problem is that it's been reported that Melo has his heart set on Houston and refuses to waive his no trade clause for any team other than Houston. From the Suns perspective, I think they would probably do it. I'm not sure that Cleveland would do it, as they believe that they should get a Kings ransom for Kyrie.

A Booker/Jackson/KP trio would be a dream come true, but I don't think NY is moving KP. They chose him over Phil.

https://twitter.com/PeterVecsey1/status/890767447170715648 Interesting factoid from Peter Vescey. He's not plugged in anymore, but he sure was then.

Does anyone else think the whole timeline/McD extension actually gives us leverage in a lot of trades now
Can't be backed into a corner since we have no need to win now. hopefully it means we don't overpay on any possible trades

O_Gardino wrote:

Superbone wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Cap wrote:We offered Len the QO and are waiting to hear back? That's it? We haven't even offered a multi-year deal?

Come on. For all of Len's flaws, I'd definitely offer him more than 4.2/1. Opening with nothing more than the QO is an insult.

I kind of agree. Williams gets more $ that after playing half the minutes. Len has to be looking at the Williams contract and thinking he at least gets that.

My understanding is that only the first year of Williams' deal is guaranteed.

Yep, that's what someone here said. Probably Carey.

I'm glad we aren't bidding against ourselves. There's not a big market for Len. But from his perspective, it's got to be a tough pill to swallow.

Why? He sucks. Now he's learned he sucks. Time to swallow it and let it motivate you to be better.

In2ition wrote:I thought this was an interesting trade proposal.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/07/27/ ... enix-suns/

The problems I see are that New York gives up too much, basically gutting their team, but maybe they would like to do that. The other problem is that it's been reported that Melo has his heart set on Houston and refuses to waive his no trade clause for any team other than Houston. From the Suns perspective, I think they would probably do it. I'm not sure that Cleveland would do it, as they believe that they should get a Kings ransom for Kyrie.

In our freaking dreams

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... oenix-suns

Good article for those of you that think Len's problem is the team was asking too much of him and were putting him in situations he couldn't possibly succeed in.

carey wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... oenix-suns

Good article for those of you that think Len's problem is the team was asking too much of him and were putting him in situations he couldn't possibly succeed in.

It's not good for us, it's good for the other half. He's just preaching to our choir.

Superbone wrote:

carey wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... oenix-suns

Good article for those of you that think Len's problem is the team was asking too much of him and were putting him in situations he couldn't possibly succeed in.

It's not good for us, it's good for the other half. He's just preaching to our choir.

What do you mean?

carey wrote:

Superbone wrote:

carey wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... oenix-suns

Good article for those of you that think Len's problem is the team was asking too much of him and were putting him in situations he couldn't possibly succeed in.

It's not good for us, it's good for the other half. He's just preaching to our choir.

What do you mean?

It's about how the Suns are misusing Len. We already knew that.

Along those same lines, the Suns employed another curious tactic last season with Len that he seemed ill-suited for. A couple times a game, they would run a set for Len to post up while everyone else…cleared out and watched. Now, I may just be a no-talent hack posting under a pseudonym on a basketball blog, but who in his right mind thinks to himself when designing NBA offense: I’ve got it. Iso Alex!

carey wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... oenix-suns

Good article for those of you that think Len's problem is the team was asking too much of him and were putting him in situations he couldn't possibly succeed in.

Yet another article about how we handle our players badly. I don't think Len is a great player, but if you draft a big center #5, then move him away from the basket and let him clank shots, you're dumb.

I guess I don't know how qualifying offers work. I wasn't aware that the QO was based on # of starts. If I was Len, I'd be mad. He has played the most minutes with the most consistency of any of our centers for 3 straight years. If we don't think he's good, we should move him. If we do think he's good, we shouldn't sabotage him to keep the price down.

This is his livelihood here, and if the team can fail to give him the two extra starts it would have taken over the last two seasons for him to earn the full qualifying offer, he can demand to be put in position to showcase the best of himself.

O_Gardino wrote:

Superbone wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Cap wrote:We offered Len the QO and are waiting to hear back? That's it? We haven't even offered a multi-year deal?

Come on. For all of Len's flaws, I'd definitely offer him more than 4.2/1. Opening with nothing more than the QO is an insult.

I kind of agree. Williams gets more $ that after playing half the minutes. Len has to be looking at the Williams contract and thinking he at least gets that.

My understanding is that only the first year of Williams' deal is guaranteed.

Yep, that's what someone here said. Probably Carey.

I'm glad we aren't bidding against ourselves. There's not a big market for Len. But from his perspective, it's got to be a tough pill to swallow.

It would be nice for some team to jump in and give him a nice, low-ball, offer so he can sign, we can match, and be finished with all this. Sounds like the Suns opened actual negotiations with the QO--which is usually just a formality offer. They are waiting for a counter from the agent.

O_Gardino wrote:

In2ition wrote:I thought this was an interesting trade proposal.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2017/07/27/ ... enix-suns/

The problems I see are that New York gives up too much, basically gutting their team, but maybe they would like to do that. The other problem is that it's been reported that Melo has his heart set on Houston and refuses to waive his no trade clause for any team other than Houston. From the Suns perspective, I think they would probably do it. I'm not sure that Cleveland would do it, as they believe that they should get a Kings ransom for Kyrie.

Very nice trade. If we could do it without giving up both 2018 picks, I'd be all in.

You wouldn't give up two draft picks (one protected) for that? I don't know what to tell you.

JCSunsfan wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Superbone wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Cap wrote:We offered Len the QO and are waiting to hear back? That's it? We haven't even offered a multi-year deal?

Come on. For all of Len's flaws, I'd definitely offer him more than 4.2/1. Opening with nothing more than the QO is an insult.

I kind of agree. Williams gets more $ that after playing half the minutes. Len has to be looking at the Williams contract and thinking he at least gets that.

My understanding is that only the first year of Williams' deal is guaranteed.

Yep, that's what someone here said. Probably Carey.

I'm glad we aren't bidding against ourselves. There's not a big market for Len. But from his perspective, it's got to be a tough pill to swallow.

It would be nice for some team to jump in and give him a nice, low-ball, offer so he can sign, we can match, and be finished with all this. Sounds like the Suns opened actual negotiations with the QO--which is usually just a formality offer. They are waiting for a counter from the agent.

I'd just be fine if we renounced his rights. I really am not interested in bringing him back. I'd rather Alan Williams get his minutes. I guess if we salary dump Chandler on to someone he'd be ok to have, but Williams, Chandler, Len, Chriss, Bender, and Dudley is too many bigs that want minutes. Not to mention we might see Jackson or Warren play some small ball 4. Just let him go and wish him well. Maybe some other team will use him correctly and he'll have some success.

O_Gardino wrote:

carey wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... oenix-suns

Good article for those of you that think Len's problem is the team was asking too much of him and were putting him in situations he couldn't possibly succeed in.

Yet another article about how we handle our players badly. I don't think Len is a great player, but if you draft a big center #5, then move him away from the basket and let him clank shots, you're dumb.

I guess I don't know how qualifying offers work. I wasn't aware that the QO was based on # of starts. If I was Len, I'd be mad. He has played the most minutes with the most consistency of any of our centers for 3 straight years. If we don't think he's good, we should move him. If we do think he's good, we shouldn't sabotage him to keep the price down.

This is his livelihood here, and if the team can fail to give him the two extra starts it would have taken over the last two seasons for him to earn the full qualifying offer, he can demand to be put in position to showcase the best of himself.

Damn, that's nasty. You don't treat your own players like that. Just because benching him for a few extra games mean we CAN give him a smaller QO doesn't mean we SHOULD. We should offer him full QO, no questions asked, before even opening negotiations.

Maybe Sarver comes from a world where tough negotiating separates the winners from the losers. We seem to be trying to negotiate from a position of strength: We have you over a barrel, Alex, so you'll take what we give you and like it.

Superbone wrote:

carey wrote:

Superbone wrote:

carey wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... oenix-suns

Good article for those of you that think Len's problem is the team was asking too much of him and were putting him in situations he couldn't possibly succeed in.

It's not good for us, it's good for the other half. He's just preaching to our choir.

What do you mean?

It's about how the Suns are misusing Len. We already knew that.

Along those same lines, the Suns employed another curious tactic last season with Len that he seemed ill-suited for. A couple times a game, they would run a set for Len to post up while everyone else…cleared out and watched. Now, I may just be a no-talent hack posting under a pseudonym on a basketball blog, but who in his right mind thinks to himself when designing NBA offense: I’ve got it. Iso Alex!

Yawn. In the same article he bitches about putting Alex out to shoot jumpers as well as playing him in the post. We all know he has brick hands tooo so he sucks at PnR. Could it simply then be that Alex Len is not a good offensive player and his defensive strengths don't make up for his lack of any offensive game or any ability to stay out of foul trouble.

Split T wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Superbone wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:
I kind of agree. Williams gets more $ that after playing half the minutes. Len has to be looking at the Williams contract and thinking he at least gets that.

My understanding is that only the first year of Williams' deal is guaranteed.

Yep, that's what someone here said. Probably Carey.

I'm glad we aren't bidding against ourselves. There's not a big market for Len. But from his perspective, it's got to be a tough pill to swallow.

It would be nice for some team to jump in and give him a nice, low-ball, offer so he can sign, we can match, and be finished with all this. Sounds like the Suns opened actual negotiations with the QO--which is usually just a formality offer. They are waiting for a counter from the agent.

I'd just be fine if we renounced his rights. I really am not interested in bringing him back. I'd rather Alan Williams get his minutes. I guess if we salary dump Chandler on to someone he'd be ok to have, but Williams, Chandler, Len, Chriss, Bender, and Dudley is too many bigs that want minutes. Not to mention we might see Jackson or Warren play some small ball 4. Just let him go and wish him well. Maybe some other team will use him correctly and he'll have some success.

It's too late to renounce his rights. There was a deadline for doing that.