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Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:31 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:30 am

Doncic won an MVP playing in a grown men's league. Hard to discount that, it shows his skills are highly advanced. My only concern is the athleticism. The ACB doesn't have the level of athletes that the top ncaa teams do. I don't think that will keep Doncic from being a good NBA player, but it might keep him from being a great one.

Many great players wouldn't be described as "athletic." James Harden isn't very athletic, by NBA standards. Tim Duncan wasn't athletic. Dragic, Kyle Lowry, Karl-Anthony Towns, Victor Oladipo, Chris Paul, ... lots of guys do well despite average NBA "athleticism."

Depends on how you define athleticism. Harden may not be the highest leaper or the fastest end-to-end, but when it comes to acceleration, deceleration, and changing direction, he’s in the top 2% of the league.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:31 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:30 am

Doncic won an MVP playing in a grown men's league. Hard to discount that, it shows his skills are highly advanced. My only concern is the athleticism. The ACB doesn't have the level of athletes that the top ncaa teams do. I don't think that will keep Doncic from being a good NBA player, but it might keep him from being a great one.

Many great players wouldn't be described as "athletic." James Harden isn't very athletic, by NBA standards. Tim Duncan wasn't athletic. Dragic, Kyle Lowry, Karl-Anthony Towns, Victor Oladipo, Chris Paul, ... lots of guys do well despite average NBA "athleticism."

I'm not saying you have to be athletic to be great, but it makes it a lot easier. Also, Chris Paul is athletic, Victor oladipo is very athletic(he was just in the dunk contest). Towns and Duncan are big men and were/are not unathletic.

The difference I'm taking about is like the difference between Young Grant Hill and Hedo Turkoglu. Or for a more current one, Kyle Anderson and Ben Simmons.

And no, I don't think Doncic will only end up as Kyle Anderson, but Anderson is a decent player, who could be great if he had Simmons athleticism.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:31 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:30 am

Doncic won an MVP playing in a grown men's league. Hard to discount that, it shows his skills are highly advanced. My only concern is the athleticism. The ACB doesn't have the level of athletes that the top ncaa teams do. I don't think that will keep Doncic from being a good NBA player, but it might keep him from being a great one.

Many great players wouldn't be described as "athletic." James Harden isn't very athletic, by NBA standards. Tim Duncan wasn't athletic. Dragic, Kyle Lowry, Karl-Anthony Towns, Victor Oladipo, Chris Paul, ... lots of guys do well despite average NBA "athleticism."

Man this is so wrong haha . Oladipo? Duncan hahaha.

[youtube][/youtube]

I get your point, though.

Oh, and if you want to see Doncic, find a stream for the second game of the ACB finals against Baskonia (best of 5; Madrid lost first game).

https://mobile.twitter.com/esidery/status/1007784176978780160

KOC is off his fuckin' rocker, man. We're going to trade a cost secured #1 pick for Kawhi when he can leave after a season? And even if he stayed we'd have to pay him more than $35M a year. Come on, dude.

Stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.

carey wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:38 pm

KOC is off his f***' rocker, man. We're going to trade a cost secured #1 pick for Kawhi when he can leave after a season? And even if he stayed we'd have to pay him more than $35M a year. Come on, dude.

He's just reporting what he's heard. And for the record, it's just other executives assuming Phoenix would look into it.

Why would anybody trade the #1 pick on a rookie contract for a player who has one year left on his contract (at $20 million), reportedly wants to sign with a division rival as a free agent and may have sat out while healthy in order to force a trade?

Because he's 26, a two time DPOY, was a top 3 player in the league last time he was healthy. That's enough to have the discussion, if he's not willing to commit long term(which I'm sure he's not) then you don't go through with the offer, but chances are whoever we draft at 1 will never become what Kawhi is and will be over the next few years.

except for the #1 and booker, everything is on the table for a kawhi rental.

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:50 pm

Because he's 26, a two time DPOY, was a top 3 player in the league last time he was healthy. That's enough to have the discussion, if he's not willing to commit long term(which I'm sure he's not) then you don't go through with the offer, but chances are whoever we draft at 1 will never become what Kawhi is and will be over the next few years.

When was he ever a top 3 player? You just can't give up the #1 in my opinion. Especially since no one has seen him play in a year. I also don't know what to make of him orchestrating this entire ordeal to escape from the most stable franchise in the league. I don't know.

carey wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:18 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:50 pm

Because he's 26, a two time DPOY, was a top 3 player in the league last time he was healthy. That's enough to have the discussion, if he's not willing to commit long term(which I'm sure he's not) then you don't go through with the offer, but chances are whoever we draft at 1 will never become what Kawhi is and will be over the next few years.

When was he ever a top 3 player? You just can't give up the #1 in my opinion. Especially since no one has seen him play in a year. I also don't know what to make of him orchestrating this entire ordeal to escape from the most stable franchise in the league. I don't know.

He finished 2nd and 3rd in the MVP voting the last two years he played.

I'm not in favor of trading the #1 for him, but it's not because he isn't good enough. It's just because of his health and rental status.

If Kawhi agrees to an extension with the Suns, then it’s a no brainer to trade #1 for him.

DeAndre Ayton can’t dream of becoming the player that Kawhi Leonard he is.

Even despite being 5-6 inches shorter, Kawhi is probably a better defender, rim protector and help defender than Ayton.

Hard pass.

I don’t think we’d need to trade the first pick. I think Jackson, Chriss, our own unprotected in 2019 and Miami’s unprotected in 2021 should be more than enough.

I wouldn’t pull that trade unless Kawhi signs an extension, and not one with an opt out in the first two years.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:13 am

I don’t think we’d need to trade the first pick. I think Jackson, Chriss, our own unprotected in 2019 and Miami’s unprotected in 2021 should be more than enough.

I wouldn’t pull that trade unless Kawhi signs an extension, and not one with an opt out in the first two years.

My guess is San Antonio is going to want something more established. I don't think Pop wants to rebuild for his last couple years. Rozier/Brown and picks or some combination of Saric/Covington/Fultz/picks seem like the best deals they'll get.

Ingram/Kuzma is pretty good too. The players we have to offer are further away(Jackson/Chriss/Bender) unless they love Warren.

But I think you're right that we can create enough value without including the #1 pick. I think we'd have to combine our picks and send them to a third team for a more established player to send with Jackson to SA.

UglyTruth wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:30 am

If Kawhi agrees to an extension with the Suns, then it’s a no brainer to trade #1 for him.

DeAndre Ayton can’t dream of becoming the player that Kawhi Leonard he is.

Even despite being 5-6 inches shorter, Kawhi is probably a better defender, rim protector and help defender than Ayton.

Can't dream? Boy you're coming up with all kinds of crazy absolutes today. If Ayton wins an MVP, he will still never be close to the omnipotent being Kawhi is? What's next?

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:13 am

I don’t think we’d need to trade the first pick. I think Jackson, Chriss, our own unprotected in 2019 and Miami’s unprotected in 2021 should be more than enough.

I wouldn’t pull that trade unless Kawhi signs an extension, and not one with an opt out in the first two years.

I agree. I think the Spurs hope for a decent return on Kawhi took a huge fall once it became known that he wants out AND he wants to be a laker.

UglyTruth wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:30 am

If Kawhi agrees to an extension with the Suns, then it’s a no brainer to trade #1 for him.

DeAndre Ayton can’t dream of becoming the player that Kawhi Leonard he is.

Even despite being 5-6 inches shorter, Kawhi is probably a better defender, rim protector and help defender than Ayton.

I wish I could tell the future.