Phx-Suns.Net

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:31 am

wpmiller42 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:16 am

I wonder if Ayton would be open to a contract more in the 25 million per year range, but with player options after year 2? That way, if he performs like he's capable, he can exercise an early out and then really cash in. Works out for us because hopefully we get a more engaged Ayton.

He might see that as a failure for his primary goal.

We've heard his motivations from the very beginning. Before and after he was drafted. First he insisted he was the #1 pick in that draft. Next, as soon as we drafted him, he wondered aloud what it what it would take to get that next contract. Then when negotiation started for said contract, his team insisted on only a full max contract.

I so wish that he had the motivations and drive to be the player we all envision rather than concentrating on the financial outcome. If he had, the financial outcome he wanted would have easily been had. Classic chicken and egg.

Can you imagine if his actual first thought when asked what his ultimate goal was and he said "to be the best player in this history of the game" instead of "get paid as much as I can"?

Imagine thinking this is CP3's or Monty's fault...





In a season where he played 58 games, only 10 times all year did he have a game where he had a possession that included him dribbling more than 2 times. And only 29 games this year where he dribbled more than once in a possession. ALL SEASON.

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:15 am

Can you imagine if his actual first thought when asked what his ultimate goal was and he said "to be the best player in this history of the game" instead of "get paid as much as I can"?

Should probably just give him more shots.

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:33 am

Imagine thinking this is CP3's or Monty's fault...





In a season where he played 58 games, only 10 times all year did he have a game where he had a possession that included him dribbling more than 2 times. And only 29 games this year where he dribbled more than once in a possession. ALL SEASON.

He just needs more opportunities.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:13 am

My thing is we’ve shown we can replace 80% of Ayton with minimum contract and 5 million dollar centers. If Ayton can return a player at another position that upgrades that position by more than the decrease from Ayton to say a McGee or Biyombo, it’s a win. Would OG be 120% or more of Crowder? Honestly ya I think so…but you’re still losing future value with Ayton and that’s why I’d want more in return. Siakam would be a dream because he’s 2-3x the player Crowder is.

McGee, especially on defense, gave us about 0% of Ayton in the playoffs, which is all that really matters.

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:24 pm

I have said numerous times I don't want him gone. I would love to have him here on a contract that pays him around 25M/year. But he has said he only wants a max deal and doesn't care who gives it to him.

Quote?

Suns’ record in the postseason this year:

When Ayton scored 19+ points: 6-2
When Ayton scored 16 or fewer points: 1-4

So yes I think it would have been smart to get him more involved in the offense.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:31 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:13 am

My thing is we’ve shown we can replace 80% of Ayton with minimum contract and 5 million dollar centers. If Ayton can return a player at another position that upgrades that position by more than the decrease from Ayton to say a McGee or Biyombo, it’s a win. Would OG be 120% or more of Crowder? Honestly ya I think so…but you’re still losing future value with Ayton and that’s why I’d want more in return. Siakam would be a dream because he’s 2-3x the player Crowder is.

McGee, especially on defense, gave us about 0% of Ayton in the playoffs, which is all that really matters.

Against Dallas? Yes, but Biyombo was useful. Dallas is one of those teams where we didn’t need to play a C. If we had Siakam, just put him at the 5 with Cam, Bridges, Booker, and CP3. Ayton was unable to put pressure on the rim, Siakam would’ve been much better for us.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:34 pm

Suns’ record in the postseason this year:

When Ayton scored 19+ points: 6-2
When Ayton scored 16 or fewer points: 1-4

So yes I think it would have been smart to get him more involved in the offense.

Against Dallas we were 2-1 when he played less than 25 minutes and 1-3 when he played more than 30, so I guess it would’ve been smart to play him less.

Interesting

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:41 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:34 pm

Suns’ record in the postseason this year:

When Ayton scored 19+ points: 6-2
When Ayton scored 16 or fewer points: 1-4

So yes I think it would have been smart to get him more involved in the offense.

Against Dallas we were 2-1 when he played less than 25 minutes and 1-3 when he played more than 30, so I guess it would’ve been smart to play him less.

Nope, just get him more involved in the offense.

Funny how you want to punish him for scoring 20 points in 22 minutes in a 30-point blowout victory.

Good things happen when he is engaged offensively. Part of the blame goes to him for not being constantly aggressive. Part also goes to the coaching staff for not running plays for him and making him a focus of the offense.

Defensively, I have no complaints, He does about as much as you can expect from a center who just three years ago everyone thought was lost defensively. He's made terrific strides there.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:48 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:41 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:34 pm

Suns’ record in the postseason this year:

When Ayton scored 19+ points: 6-2
When Ayton scored 16 or fewer points: 1-4

So yes I think it would have been smart to get him more involved in the offense.

Against Dallas we were 2-1 when he played less than 25 minutes and 1-3 when he played more than 30, so I guess it would’ve been smart to play him less.

Nope, just get him more involved in the offense.

Funny how you want to punish him for scoring 20 points in 22 minutes in a 30-point blowout victory.

I wasn’t being serious…I just didn’t think your stat told the whole story either. It’s on Ayton as much as anyone to create his scoring opportunities.

Same stats for Paul…

Suns went 6-0 when he scored 19 or more
1-6 when he scored 17 or less

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:55 pm

Good things happen when he is engaged offensively. Part of the blame goes to him for not being constantly aggressive. Part also goes to the coaching staff for not running plays for him and making him a focus of the offense.

Defensively, I have no complaints, He does about as much as you can expect from a center who just three years ago everyone thought was lost defensively. He's made terrific strides there.

Only one person on the team takes more shots than DA and that is All-NBA 1st teamer, 4th in MVP voting, Devin Booker. Book gets about the same shots as any of the other top 10 scorers in the NBA, which is between 18 and 21 shots. How many shots should we take away from Book to give to DA? Should we take shots away from Booker to give them Ayton? Because nobody else on the team gets more than 10 besides Paul, and I assume you are not looking to make Paul be the 5th or 6th option on the team. If so, tell me how you do that when most of Ayton's shots require him to seal his man and get open for a pass into the paint, which requires him to be very engaged offensively.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:31 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:24 pm

I have said numerous times I don't want him gone. I would love to have him here on a contract that pays him around 25M/year. But he has said he only wants a max deal and doesn't care who gives it to him.

Quote?

His agent said there are plenty of teams out there willing to give him a max contract. He didn't say, we want to be in Phoenix. We want to get a deal done. He just said, the only offer we will accept is a full max.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:08 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:48 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:41 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:34 pm

Suns’ record in the postseason this year:

When Ayton scored 19+ points: 6-2
When Ayton scored 16 or fewer points: 1-4

So yes I think it would have been smart to get him more involved in the offense.

Against Dallas we were 2-1 when he played less than 25 minutes and 1-3 when he played more than 30, so I guess it would’ve been smart to play him less.

Nope, just get him more involved in the offense.

Funny how you want to punish him for scoring 20 points in 22 minutes in a 30-point blowout victory.

I wasn’t being serious…I just didn’t think your stat told the whole story either. It’s on Ayton as much as anyone to create his scoring opportunities.

Same stats for Paul…

Suns went 6-0 when he scored 19 or more
1-6 when he scored 17 or less

Paul can score whenever he wants.

Ayton can't pass himself the ball.

(Sorry, you set that up too well. )

He gets 45 touches a game.

Not all touches are created equal.

Agreed. Offensive rebounds are almost guaranteed FGAs for athletic 7 foot centers.