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Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:32 am

As far as I can tell, he will always try to put a competitive product on the court with the goal of winning a title. Why are people so bitter about that?

People are bitter because they don't like the on court product, and this on court product was made using virtually every resource available, while sacrificing a lot of avenues to improve the team. And it's not like this was unexpected...

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:38 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:26 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

Spoiler: show/hide

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:03 am

This season? I very much doubt that. Culturally so much has to change for that to happen, Butler/Portis need to get up to speed and chemistry needs to be developed. Throwing it all together rarely works and has even less chance mid season. Next year, assuming everyone stays healthy, you have a chance, but teams like the Thunder and Cavs are only going to get stronger.

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Agreed but in order to reach the playoffs we do need to win some regular season games first. Bringing an aging and increasingly injury prone Butler in may not guarantee you win sufficient games to reach the post season. If we're relying on Book and Durant to do it on their own......well we've seen enough this season to know they don't have enough.

They'd need to win enough regular season games to make the playoffs.

I'm not optimistic about Butler in the long term, but this season, I think he'd improve the win total beyond our current .500 standing. Do you think acquiring Butler would make us a losing team this season?

No, I'm with you on that, I agree he'd improve the win total beyond .500. I just don't know that it will be sufficient to get us into the post season. I hope I'm wrong, but the way things have panned out over the past year and a half it's tough to envision that this won't result in more of the same.

Pardon my crassness, but for fucks sake do I really need to go full Saucy..? (I don't even like Jimmy Butler that much. I'd much rather have Josh Hart.)

WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE COMPLAINING ABOUT?!?!

I laid out the various points that got us to this point and it's clearly not a flaming volcano of the 9th hell or whatever, so please try to smile. Thanks.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:32 am

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:10 am

We definitely are in a fairly hopeless state right now.

However, I'm still thrilled that we pulled a rabbit out of a hat like that. Did we sacrifice some potential future possibilities? We absolutely did. But we also did create chances for the next few years that we otherwise wouldn't have had at all.

I think the most crippling thing right now is the 2nd apron, and of course there's no guarantee that we can get below it if we are constantly chasing second or third max stars and paying them said maxes. But if we ever do get under it, the creativity that this front office has managed over the last couple of years has me cautiously optimistic that we can maybe at least remain in the lower seed playoff hunt with our current dearth of picks.

This is why I don't entirely grasp the rampant pessimism or some of the Ishbia slander.

Mat Ishbia didn't buy a basketball team to tank. Clearly he can't buy a championship (because no one really can in this NBA), but to think he's just going to sit back and accept sucking for one or several years is being selectively tone deaf. As far as I can tell, he will always try to put a competitive product on the court with the goal of winning a title. Why are people so bitter about that?

Yeah, that's what I don't get. How can everybody assume that that 2031 pick is going to be in the lottery. I get the impression that an Ishbia team may never be in the lottery. But yeah, let's continue the doom and gloom. The fans here seem to enjoy it.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:17 am

Com'on, Amen Thompson is fantastic. In a salary cap-free league, sure it's possible, but they'd have to give up so much more in salary to make it work that it's clearly impossible.

Huh? Steven Adams/Dillon Brooks/Amen Thompson for Durant. That deal works under the cap.

I just don't think Houston would be willing to give up Amen Thompson. Maybe in a Book deal, but not in a Durant deal.

Then let’s trade Book for Amen and assets.

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:34 am

I'm hopeful after the trade deadline that we have a vastly improved team.

I'll take any improvement. Getting Richards was a step in the right direction. No one move is going to save us but a good series of them will hopefully improve us and add a little enjoyment to the on court viewing experience.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:44 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:32 am

As far as I can tell, he will always try to put a competitive product on the court with the goal of winning a title. Why are people so bitter about that?

People are bitter because they don't like the on court product, and this on court product was made using virtually every resource available, while sacrificing a lot of avenues to improve the team. And it's not like this was unexpected...

The old avenues are not the present or future avenues.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:34 am

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

All the Jimmy Butler trade latest
What the Suns’ Tuesday night trade means for Butler’s future in Miami

https://marcstein.substack.com/p/all-th ... ade-latest

Not your fault, but care to post the text that otherwise requires a paid sub?

I just snagged the headline and shared it…. Didn’t realize it needed a sub, my bad.

Too much activity today in this board. Are we getting Butler any time soon?

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:50 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:17 am

Com'on, Amen Thompson is fantastic. In a salary cap-free league, sure it's possible, but they'd have to give up so much more in salary to make it work that it's clearly impossible.

Huh? Steven Adams/Dillon Brooks/Amen Thompson for Durant. That deal works under the cap.

I just don't think Houston would be willing to give up Amen Thompson. Maybe in a Book deal, but not in a Durant deal.

Cool. Thanks for supporting my point regarding the complexity of building around Booker with a KD trade.

My sources say the trade goes down tomorrow

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:24 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:05 am

I think that team is pretty good and well balanced. Think the 4th and 5th starters could be any of the top 9(Oso isn’t starting). I went with Grayson for the shooting, but Dunn for defense makes sense. Royce a mix of the two. Can keep Tyus if you feel we need a pg…I don’t with Booker and Jimmy out there. Could even start Portis(in place of Richards or alongside him if you want to go super big).

If Tyus goes to Miami in the trade, just put Morris in at the backup 1.

Ok ok where we sending Royce to after that because he damn sure ain't on this team if we want to win. Have to trim the stupid

Poor Royce is Saucy's target this season. Sorry, O'Neale. It always has to be somebody. You're it for some reason.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:58 am

My sources say the trade goes down tomorrow

Just get him suited by Saturday for the game I’m going to…. I’ll be happy.

Saucy has a few this year…KD, Beal, and Royce…probably Nurk and Plumlee too

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:58 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:24 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:05 am

I think that team is pretty good and well balanced. Think the 4th and 5th starters could be any of the top 9(Oso isn’t starting). I went with Grayson for the shooting, but Dunn for defense makes sense. Royce a mix of the two. Can keep Tyus if you feel we need a pg…I don’t with Booker and Jimmy out there. Could even start Portis(in place of Richards or alongside him if you want to go super big).

If Tyus goes to Miami in the trade, just put Morris in at the backup 1.

Ok ok where we sending Royce to after that because he damn sure ain't on this team if we want to win. Have to trim the stupid

Poor Royce is Saucy's target this season. Sorry, O'Neale. It always has to be somebody. You're it for some reason.

So you're saying I only have one target?

Nurk?? Plumlee? The Slim Parasite??

All the stupid ones must go. You guys know me by now. I don't like low IQ basketball players. Royce's turnovers and defensive miscues are insufferable.

Part of why I loved our finals team.

CP3. Mikal. Booker. Cam.

All smart players who played within themselves.

A shame CP turned 37 and lost his ability.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:00 am

Saucy has a few this year…KD, Beal, and Royce…probably Nurk and Plumlee too

Well, he doesn’t discriminate and hates everyone and with just cause.

Cap wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:41 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:32 am

pickle wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:10 am

We definitely are in a fairly hopeless state right now.

However, I'm still thrilled that we pulled a rabbit out of a hat like that. Did we sacrifice some potential future possibilities? We absolutely did. But we also did create chances for the next few years that we otherwise wouldn't have had at all.

I think the most crippling thing right now is the 2nd apron, and of course there's no guarantee that we can get below it if we are constantly chasing second or third max stars and paying them said maxes. But if we ever do get under it, the creativity that this front office has managed over the last couple of years has me cautiously optimistic that we can maybe at least remain in the lower seed playoff hunt with our current dearth of picks.

This is why I don't entirely grasp the rampant pessimism or some of the Ishbia slander.

Mat Ishbia didn't buy a basketball team to tank. Clearly he can't buy a championship (because no one really can in this NBA), but to think he's just going to sit back and accept sucking for one or several years is being selectively tone deaf. As far as I can tell, he will always try to put a competitive product on the court with the goal of winning a title. Why are people so bitter about that?

We’re still on the “Ishbia won’t let it happen” thing?

It's never gone away despite your best efforts to advertise this train of thought.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:11 am

Cuban won a championship and his team has been competitive almost every year.

The Cuban that one a championship was very different than during his first several years of ownership. That's where the Ishbia comparison comes in. Cuban started off just chasing names like Nick Van Excel, Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison; paying high dollar for guys that were exiting their prime and just throwing teams together with a bunch of names. You knocked the OKC teams that weren't serious about winning with Westbrook; those Mavs teams were essentially the same, not real threats to actually contend.

By the time the Mavs won a championship, they did it with an actual team. Dirk was the only real star, and he was surrounded by supporting cast that had depth, the pieces fit, they built chemistry, they played defense, they hustled. That's not the kind of team Ishbia is looking to build; he isn't really looking to build a team at all.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:11 am

New Orleans is a perfect example of rebuild and get nowhere after all those years.

You're just throwing stuff at the wall now. New Orleans has had massive injuries to just about every player they acquire. They weren't stuck in a rebuilding cycle. Anthony Davis (who kept getting injured) forced his way out. New Orleans got back high level talent, not just picks. Brandon Ingram turned into a stud, but he can't stay on the court. They traded for CJ McCollum. They've traded for Dejounte Murray. They traded for Jonas Valanciunas. New Orleans is far from an the example of what you're speaking against. They haven't been just hoping for draft picks. They've just made bad coaching decisions and can never stay healthy.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:57 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:50 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:17 am

Com'on, Amen Thompson is fantastic. In a salary cap-free league, sure it's possible, but they'd have to give up so much more in salary to make it work that it's clearly impossible.

Huh? Steven Adams/Dillon Brooks/Amen Thompson for Durant. That deal works under the cap.

I just don't think Houston would be willing to give up Amen Thompson. Maybe in a Book deal, but not in a Durant deal.

Cool. Thanks for supporting my point regarding the complexity of building around Booker with a KD trade.

It's only complex if you go the arbitrary rule that Amen Thompson is the only path to success.

[media][/media]

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:50 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:38 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:32 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:26 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:05 am

Spoiler: show/hide

I sincerely disagree.

Remember when the Suns were crushing the league and won 64 games? How'd that turn out?

The playoffs are not the NBA season.

Agreed but in order to reach the playoffs we do need to win some regular season games first. Bringing an aging and increasingly injury prone Butler in may not guarantee you win sufficient games to reach the post season. If we're relying on Book and Durant to do it on their own......well we've seen enough this season to know they don't have enough.

They'd need to win enough regular season games to make the playoffs.

I'm not optimistic about Butler in the long term, but this season, I think he'd improve the win total beyond our current .500 standing. Do you think acquiring Butler would make us a losing team this season?

No, I'm with you on that, I agree he'd improve the win total beyond .500. I just don't know that it will be sufficient to get us into the post season. I hope I'm wrong, but the way things have panned out over the past year and a half it's tough to envision that this won't result in more of the same.

Pardon my crassness, but for fucks sake do I really need to go full Saucy..? (I don't even like Jimmy Butler that much. I'd much rather have Josh Hart.)

WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE COMPLAINING ABOUT?!?!

I laid out the various points that got us to this point and it's clearly not a flaming volcano of the 9th hell or whatever, so please try to smile. Thanks.

I'm not sure my response warranted that......but ok....