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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:37 am
by England Sun
We have been saying for a year that we have 2 too many SF on the roster and not enough cap space to get the position of need we seek.
If we are able to clear/dump/call it what you may, both JJ and TJ to lessen the log jam and give us the flexibility we need to go after PG or PF (and or back up C) then you do it.
JJ had potential, possibly still has, but his much vaunted D did not materialise enough to make up for his shooting problems.
TJ is a scorer, but not a rebounder or assit maker, so an overall average SF who can be replaced.
2nd rounder pick or not, the cap space, roster build and mentality of the team takes a leap without them both.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:42 am
by Ring_Wanted
We'll see. Just like I had no problem moving on from RoLo or Alex Len (even knowing they could be useful to another team), I don't feel confortable letting go Warren for nothing. I've seen enough to know he is a player and his health is the only issue I have with him. I accept he is not a defender or defensive rebounder, but depending on what you have on the floor, you can get away with some minutes of TJ as a small ball PF, particularly now that he has a 3pt shot.
If my roster allowed me to have TJ Warren as a 6th-7th guy, I'd feel pretty good about the overall quality of my team. If we give him away, some team is going to be very happy with their new forward.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:20 am
by England Sun
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:42 am
If my roster allowed me to have TJ Warren as a 6th-7th guy, I'd feel pretty good about the overall quality of my team. If we give him away, some team is going to be very happy with their new forward.
And sadly therein lies the problem with the Suns roster at this time. We need to give him away/get rid to possibly enable us to get close to having 6-7 NBA players on the roster to start with
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:22 am
by jonh
I’m guessing after they both are traded, news reports are going to state that both wanted out and requested a trade because there were too many SF on the roster, just like with Dragic, Thomas, and Bledsoe.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:31 am
by O_Gardino
If we can dump both of those guys and replace them with 2nd round picks, I would be very happy. Way too much salary on this roster for it to be so bad.
As for requesting a trade, we've literally brought in a new SF or two every year of Warren's career. I would understand why he might think we aren't committed to him. But he sure hasn't locked up that starting spot, and like Shel says, he's easy to replace.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:47 am
by Split T
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:18 am
Just removing Jackson is enough to fix the logjam. Oubre-Bridges are SF/SG tweeners, not PFs. Warren has actually spent time at PF. If you draft/sign a real stretch big, you are done with the rotation at SG-SF-PF. Then all you need is a PG.
Plain dumping Warren is going to be a mistake. I am ok using him in a trade for something tangible, but don't trust the FO to have someone who can move the needle lined up to use the extra $11M in cap space created by such a move, although I imagine there is a small chance Dinwiddie would be made available for said space plus say MIL pick.
Warren is the worst at PF. He gets manhandled in the post, doesn’t rebound, and provides zero rim protection. Oubre and Bridges aren’t full time solutions, but they are better options as small ball 4’s than Warren.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:53 am
by iLLmatic
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:42 am
We'll see. Just like I had no problem moving on from RoLo or Alex Len (even knowing they could be useful to another team), I don't feel confortable letting go Warren for nothing. I've seen enough to know he is a player and his health is the only issue I have with him. I accept he is not a defender or defensive rebounder, but depending on what you have on the floor, you can get away with some minutes of TJ as a small ball PF, particularly now that he has a 3pt shot.
If my roster allowed me to have TJ Warren as a 6th-7th guy, I'd feel pretty good about the overall quality of my team. If we give him away, some team is going to be very happy with their new forward.
Yep.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:58 am
by ShelC
Just consider we had TJ on a 12mil a year deal, then McD drafted Josh Jackson, then drafted Bridges, THEN signed Ariza.
I mean honestly...
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:07 am
by Superbone
ShelC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:48 am
I would assume things are in a good enough place with Oubre that we can risk moving both. And if Oubre tries to get more money then let him walk. We still have Bridges and like I've said a million times, SFs are a dime a dozen.
Oubre Jr. is one in a million. Can’t teach that heart.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:15 am
by Indy
Superbone wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:07 am
ShelC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:48 am
I would assume things are in a good enough place with Oubre that we can risk moving both. And if Oubre tries to get more money then let him walk. We still have Bridges and like I've said a million times, SFs are a dime a dozen.
Oubre Jr. is one in a million. Can’t teach that heart.
OK, maybe I was a little early in proclaiming you aren't full-on rosy of rosiest colored glasses. As for SF in the league, he isn't the best or close to it. But he does have heart, and seemingly has a good relationship with the team and the city. Those 3 combinations are not easy for us to find in a decent basketball player.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:17 am
by Split T
I really like Oubre. If he can become an above average shooter(36% or higher from 3) I’ll be extremely happy.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:21 am
by ShelC
Superbone wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:07 am
ShelC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:48 am
I would assume things are in a good enough place with Oubre that we can risk moving both. And if Oubre tries to get more money then let him walk. We still have Bridges and like I've said a million times, SFs are a dime a dozen.
Oubre Jr. is one in a million. Can’t teach that heart.
Yet we got him for Ariza. I know it was a salary thing but still. I love Oubre but not overpaying for him when we have Bridges right here and still have TJ and JJ on the roster. And this draft (like most) is stacked with SFs.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:31 am
by carey
England Sun wrote:
And sadly therein lies the problem with the Suns roster at this time. We need to give him away/get rid to possibly enable us to get close to having 6-7 NBA players on the roster to start with
Yes, you're talking about the opportunity cost of keeping Warren versus using the space on a more pressing need. Warren is an efficient shot maker whose value sky rocketed when he shot 40% from 3. If he could raise his FT% you're almost looking at a 50/40/90 guy. That is rare. Ideally you'd want to keep a player like that. Defensive warts and all. The way our cap is set up this year I don't think we can.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:32 am
by ShelC
So either Sidery is Inf or he's watching us. Show yourself!
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:32 am
by Indy
Ha!
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:46 am
by O_Gardino
At 21 we could take Luka Samanic to show fans we really can get both Luka and Ayton. Plus, he could take Bender's spot on the roster.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:52 am
by carey
ShelC wrote:
So either Sidery is Inf or he's watching us. Show yourself!
Sidery is way more moody. Don't say anything about him on Twitter or he will be all up in your DMs.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:57 am
by carey
I don't really understand the trade. Doesn't open up cap for this year. Even though Roberson makes $2M less it adds the salary of #21 so we are basically in the same spot cap wise.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:58 am
by In2ition
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:52 am
ShelC wrote:
So either Sidery is Inf or he's watching us. Show yourself!
Sidery is way more moody. Don't say anything about him on Twitter or he will be all up in your DMs.
I like Evan way more than Brandon, who sounds like he's about to go to sleep. Maybe it's only me that he about puts to sleep.
Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:00 am
by specialsauce
carey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:57 am
I don't really understand the trade. Doesn't open up cap for this year. Even though Roberson makes $2M less it adds the salary of #21 so we are basically in the same spot cap wise.
Dumb trade so we can draft yet another player that’ll be gone in 2-3 years