Phx-Suns.Net

They’re both blah. JJJ doesn’t rebound and Bamba can’t hit FTs well and is limited offensively. Both are huge question marks to me and a huge step below Ayton.

carey wrote:Is Mirotic a starting PF in the NBA in your opinion?

Do you think if Bender shot the ball as aggressively as Mirotic that he would put up the same numbers? MIrotic is only shooting 40/30 as a Pelican. In February Bender is shooting 49/44 and putting up 13/6/2 in 30mpg. That is pretty solid numbers for a guy that on most nights isn't even your 3rd option.

When Booker is out, he kind of was our third option.

TJ can score, Daniels can shoot 3s, and Ulis can drive a little. But Jackson and Bender are our only guys who can both handle and score on some nights. Bender gets a lot of touches when we are playing well.

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:I don’t see why we aren’t in the position to take the BPA? The only positions I’d avoid are SG and SF with Booker and Jackson there. Nobody else is worth passing up a draft pick over.

Yep and there aren't any SG/SF in this draft that should be taken top 5 anyways. The Bridges are the best and Miles is a 3/4 that should go around 10-12. Mikal is probably in the same range, maybe 8-12.

Doncic is a weird prospect in that he's probably best suited to defend the 3, but he's a PG offensively. I still have some hope that he can defend the 4 a bit.

I think maybe Porter would be worthy of a top 5 pick depending on his back. He is a three.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Can somebody who's a big Doncic fan explain to me how the roster would work with Doncic on our team? Would he be our SF? If so, what about Josh Jackson? Is he more of an SG? If so, how do we play him with Booker? Is he more of a PG? If so, I kind of get it on offense, but on D can he really stop guys like Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Steph Curry, etc.? Isn't that going to be a defensive nightmare? Can somebody describe to me a rotation that makes sense with Doncic on the Suns? (I don't hate the dude, I just want to understand how we might use him if we took him.)

Fair question. I think the answer is using Josh in the same way used to use Shawn Marion to cover Nash’s defensive weaknesses. But it does leave Warren out. He can’t cover an opposing 2 or 3.

JCSunsfan wrote:

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:I don’t see why we aren’t in the position to take the BPA? The only positions I’d avoid are SG and SF with Booker and Jackson there. Nobody else is worth passing up a draft pick over.

Yep and there aren't any SG/SF in this draft that should be taken top 5 anyways. The Bridges are the best and Miles is a 3/4 that should go around 10-12. Mikal is probably in the same range, maybe 8-12.

Doncic is a weird prospect in that he's probably best suited to defend the 3, but he's a PG offensively. I still have some hope that he can defend the 4 a bit.

I think maybe Porter would be worthy of a top 5 pick depending on his back. He is a three.

I'd play him at the 4. He's 6'10. Thin, but not overly. I think he'll be fine at the 4

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

Split T wrote:[youtube][/youtube]

This is the most he's shown offensively. Scoring in the post, driving, passing and of course hitting the 3 ball. His defense is the real reason I want him.

And the debate will be which of these two. JJJ has a very immature body. He is big. He has a very good wing span. He still looks like he has baby fat. He has the frame to turn a lot of fat to muscle. Bamba is longer. That 7-9 wingspan is unheard of. But he is thin. Those twig legs are not going to get that much bigger. This one is tough. Bamba is a better rebounder though. JJJ should be. He just doesn't seem to be interested in rebounding as much.


[youtube][/youtube]

Bamba is almost a year and a half older, so his body is bound to be more mature.

To me, it's not even close. JJJ does everything well, his head is up, and I think he has special awareness of everything happening on the court.

Too bad he rebounds like a MoBro. I'd take Bamba all day. The age difference means nothing to me, and it won't matter for a very long time, not sure why everyone is so wrapped up in that. This reminds me of everyone going gaga over Jonathan Isaac, meh.

How about the mid 40% 3pt shooting compared to Bamba's sub 30%?

And JJJ isn't a poor rebounder. His counting numbers are low but he also only plays 22 minutes a game. His rebound rate is decent. He also plays a lot on the perimeter. I think he'll rebound fine in the NBA. He moves better defensively than Bamba as well and is just better at everything on offense. Rebounding is literally the only thing Bamba has on JJJ.

Maybe I haven't seen the right Bamba games but he hasn't impressed me. I have JJJ comfortably ahead of him.

I’d love to find a player in college who didn’t rebound well then suddenly did in the NBA

Andre Drummond was a mediocre rebounder in college. So was Tristan Thompson. Both had rebound rates about the same as JJJ

Drummond averaged 10.6 per game.

JJJ is at 6. If he can’t stay on the court more than 22 mpg to grab them, that’s a serious problem. That is not an excuse.

And Tristan Thompson has never rebounded 10 per game.

specialsauce wrote:Drummond averaged 10.6 per game.

JJJ is at 6. If he can’t stay on the court more than 22 mpg to grab them, that’s a serious problem. That is not an excuse.

7.6, not 10.6. And it's ridiculous that JJJ only plays 22 minutes, it's not his fault.

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Drummond averaged 10.6 per game.

JJJ is at 6. If he can’t stay on the court more than 22 mpg to grab them, that’s a serious problem. That is not an excuse.

7.6, not 10.6. And it's ridiculous that JJJ only plays 22 minutes, it's not his fault.

Whoops you’re right on that one, misread it

specialsauce wrote: And Tristan Thompson has never rebounded 10 per game.

No but he's been at 9.4, 10 rebounds isn't some magical number that makes you a good rebounder. Tristan wasn't very good in college and he's been an above average rebounder in the NBA.

For the record, I'm not claiming JJJ will turn into Drummond as a rebounder or even Thompson. He definitely has work to do there, I just think he is so good at everything else that I can live with his average rebounding.

specialsauce wrote:I don’t see why we aren’t in the position to take the BPA? The only positions I’d avoid are SG and SF with Booker and Jackson there. Nobody else is worth passing up a draft pick over.

I thought Doncic was a three. If he is as I have read after my post a potential special playmaker like Ben Simmons that changes my thinking. I like Ayton but a playmaker is more important long term. I would take him while trying to get a big later or via free agency.

The four best teams in the league at this time do not have anyone of consequence at the 5. They all however have expert playmakers. That appears is what Doncic brings. It that is the case he is my number 1 pick, even if Ayton is available.

I still think it is going to be hard for us to get the 1st or 2nd pick. I read today that Cuban sees no good reason for the Mavs to win games. I expect all the other teams feel the same. I wonder how we are really going to pull off this tank. I think Booker would really like to win some games.

What do you guys think of Daniel Gafford?

Split T wrote:Andre Drummond was a mediocre rebounder in college. So was Tristan Thompson. Both had rebound rates about the same as JJJ

The few do not outweigh the many.

To each their own, but I'll be underwhelmed with either Jackson Jr or Young.

Split T wrote:

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

Split T wrote: This is the most he's shown offensively. Scoring in the post, driving, passing and of course hitting the 3 ball. His defense is the real reason I want him.

And the debate will be which of these two. JJJ has a very immature body. He is big. He has a very good wing span. He still looks like he has baby fat. He has the frame to turn a lot of fat to muscle. Bamba is longer. That 7-9 wingspan is unheard of. But he is thin. Those twig legs are not going to get that much bigger. This one is tough. Bamba is a better rebounder though. JJJ should be. He just doesn't seem to be interested in rebounding as much.

Bamba is almost a year and a half older, so his body is bound to be more mature.

To me, it's not even close. JJJ does everything well, his head is up, and I think he has special awareness of everything happening on the court.

Too bad he rebounds like a MoBro. I'd take Bamba all day. The age difference means nothing to me, and it won't matter for a very long time, not sure why everyone is so wrapped up in that. This reminds me of everyone going gaga over Jonathan Isaac, meh.

How about the mid 40% 3pt shooting compared to Bamba's sub 30%?

And JJJ isn't a poor rebounder. His counting numbers are low but he also only plays 22 minutes a game. His rebound rate is decent. He also plays a lot on the perimeter. I think he'll rebound fine in the NBA. He moves better defensively than Bamba as well and is just better at everything on offense. Rebounding is literally the only thing Bamba has on JJJ.

Maybe I haven't seen the right Bamba games but he hasn't impressed me. I have JJJ comfortably ahead of him.

Bamba is a very nice rebounder. He gets ones where he goes for the block, doesn't get it, but still turns back around into the play to get the rebound. Jackson doesn't get those. When Jackson contests a shot, somebody else has to get the rebound.

Jackson will get more DRBs when his body fills out; you can see him fighting for some that he just doesn't have the bulk to get. He'll also get more in the NBA anyway because all the long 3s result in lots of rebounds farther from the basket. Jackson's mobility will help him there.

But to me, all that is moot. In today's NBA, you don't need one dominant rebounder. You need lots of guys going for the rebounds, and you need lots of guys who can create plays. Jackson can do both, and his playmaking from is really very nice for a 5.

JustWinBaby wrote:

specialsauce wrote:I don’t see why we aren’t in the position to take the BPA? The only positions I’d avoid are SG and SF with Booker and Jackson there. Nobody else is worth passing up a draft pick over.

I thought Doncic was a three. If he is as I have read after my post a potential special playmaker like Ben Simmons that changes my thinking. I like Ayton but a playmaker is more important long term. I would take him while trying to get a big later or via free agency.

The four best teams in the league at this time do not have anyone of consequence at the 5. They all however have expert playmakers. That appears is what Doncic brings. It that is the case he is my number 1 pick, even if Ayton is available.

I still think it is going to be hard for us to get the 1st or 2nd pick. I read today that Cuban sees no good reason for the Mavs to win games. I expect all the other teams feel the same. I wonder how we are really going to pull off this tank. I think Booker would really like to win some games.

WORD

Ayton is fantastic at secondary skills. Now, the NBA appears to be trying to re-balance the rules so that Big men matter more. Maybe during Ayton's career he will lead a team to some playoff wins.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

Split T wrote:Andre Drummond was a mediocre rebounder in college. So was Tristan Thompson. Both had rebound rates about the same as JJJ

The few do not outweigh the many.

To each their own, but I'll be underwhelmed with either Jackson Jr or Young.

That's true. I wasnt using them to prove JJJ would be a great rebounder. Just to show it's possible.

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/966795893868515328 Will be really good to see him play competitive basketball before the draft