Phx-Suns.Net

Yes. He’s 8 years younger. He’s cheaper. He is an elite defender. He beats Westbrook in WS, BPM, VORP. He’s way more efficient as a scorer. I don’t really see any argument for Westbrook over Simmons. Ya Simmons can’t shoot, but Westbrook is the one guy who’s worse than that, he can’t shoot and yet he still does.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:24 am

I wouldnt trade Ben Simmons straight up for James Harden given that rosters construction. I also really just like Ben Simmons, sooo....

Those picks in addition to Simmons is not as crazy as it sounds. We are talking about James Harden, to pair with another bonafide allstar and a complete roster with shooters, defenders and a somewhat credible third option in Harris. If I am Morey I pull the trigger asap.

I kind of like the Brooklyn package for Harden better. LaVert, Dinwiddie, and picks, or something of that nature. Those are nice young talented pieces, and if you push the picks out a few years, Brooklyn's core may age out and not be a contender any more. I like Simmons, but I don't think a Simmons/Wall backcourt really does much for a team trying to rebuild. Am I crazy? If Philly did agree to send Simmons plus several picks, you have to take that if you're Houston, but I don't think they would do that.

I personally am hesitant on Simmons for Harden. I’m a big Simmons fan, but Harden is obviously a better player at the moment. The picks seem excessive to me. I think I’d hold firm at Simmons for Harden straight up. I’d also wait and see what I’ve got with the new lineup around Simmons/Embiid and Doc coaching before I’d pull the trigger.

As for Houston, if I can get Simmons, sign me up. I actually think he’s an ok fit alongside Wall. Wall is not a bad shooter, he’s a significant step up from Westbrook. And he’s a guy who can run the offense in crunch time. He’s not afraid to take shots or get fouled. A 4/5 combo of Simmons/Wood is solid. Add two wing shooters and you’ve got the makings of a good team.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:49 pm

I personally am hesitant on Simmons for Harden. I’m a big Simmons fan, but Harden is obviously a better player at the moment. The picks seem excessive to me. I think I’d hold firm at Simmons for Harden straight up. I’d also wait and see what I’ve got with the new lineup around Simmons/Embiid and Doc coaching before I’d pull the trigger.

As for Houston, if I can get Simmons, sign me up. I actually think he’s an ok fit alongside Wall. Wall is not a bad shooter, he’s a significant step up from Westbrook. And he’s a guy who can run the offense in crunch time. He’s not afraid to take shots or get fouled. A 4/5 combo of Simmons/Wood is solid. Add two wing shooters and you’ve got the makings of a good team.

If it were straight up, I think Philly makes out like crazy. They are clearly a better team with that trade, and Houston is a worse team.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:45 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:49 pm

I personally am hesitant on Simmons for Harden. I’m a big Simmons fan, but Harden is obviously a better player at the moment. The picks seem excessive to me. I think I’d hold firm at Simmons for Harden straight up. I’d also wait and see what I’ve got with the new lineup around Simmons/Embiid and Doc coaching before I’d pull the trigger.

As for Houston, if I can get Simmons, sign me up. I actually think he’s an ok fit alongside Wall. Wall is not a bad shooter, he’s a significant step up from Westbrook. And he’s a guy who can run the offense in crunch time. He’s not afraid to take shots or get fouled. A 4/5 combo of Simmons/Wood is solid. Add two wing shooters and you’ve got the makings of a good team.

If it were straight up, I think Philly makes out like crazy. They are clearly a better team with that trade, and Houston is a worse team.

Sure, but what offer is out there that beats Ben Simmons? It’s not always about equal value. Houston has to weigh keeping an unhappy Harden vs what they can get for him. Trades don’t happen in a vacuum, can’t just look at player value. Of course Houston should try to get more and I don’t doubt they asked for 3 picks, but I’d hold strong at just Simmons. I don’t think Brooklyn can top that.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:45 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:49 pm

I personally am hesitant on Simmons for Harden. I’m a big Simmons fan, but Harden is obviously a better player at the moment. The picks seem excessive to me. I think I’d hold firm at Simmons for Harden straight up. I’d also wait and see what I’ve got with the new lineup around Simmons/Embiid and Doc coaching before I’d pull the trigger.

As for Houston, if I can get Simmons, sign me up. I actually think he’s an ok fit alongside Wall. Wall is not a bad shooter, he’s a significant step up from Westbrook. And he’s a guy who can run the offense in crunch time. He’s not afraid to take shots or get fouled. A 4/5 combo of Simmons/Wood is solid. Add two wing shooters and you’ve got the makings of a good team.

If it were straight up, I think Philly makes out like crazy. They are clearly a better team with that trade, and Houston is a worse team.

Sure, but what offer is out there that beats Ben Simmons? It’s not always about equal value. Houston has to weigh keeping an unhappy Harden vs what they can get for him. Trades don’t happen in a vacuum, can’t just look at player value. Of course Houston should try to get more and I don’t doubt they asked for 3 picks, but I’d hold strong at just Simmons. I don’t think Brooklyn can top that.

I'd take a Lavert, Dinwiddie (especially if you can get him to resign), Jordan, and one of their rookies and a pick over Simmons. Not sure Brooklyn will do it... I think taking multiple pieces (even though not better than Simmons) gives you more flexibility in how to rebuild.

I can't figure out why Chicago hasn't been brought up in any of this. Zach Lavine is a level below Simmons, but he's better than anyone Brooklyn can offer. They also have a bunch of young players, a huge expiring contract in Otto Porter, and all of their first round picks available.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:45 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:49 pm

I personally am hesitant on Simmons for Harden. I’m a big Simmons fan, but Harden is obviously a better player at the moment. The picks seem excessive to me. I think I’d hold firm at Simmons for Harden straight up. I’d also wait and see what I’ve got with the new lineup around Simmons/Embiid and Doc coaching before I’d pull the trigger.

As for Houston, if I can get Simmons, sign me up. I actually think he’s an ok fit alongside Wall. Wall is not a bad shooter, he’s a significant step up from Westbrook. And he’s a guy who can run the offense in crunch time. He’s not afraid to take shots or get fouled. A 4/5 combo of Simmons/Wood is solid. Add two wing shooters and you’ve got the makings of a good team.

If it were straight up, I think Philly makes out like crazy. They are clearly a better team with that trade, and Houston is a worse team.

Exactly. It isn't even a question if Philly would be better. Harden and Embiid is incredibly superior pairing than Simmons and Embiid. And I like Simmons. And I am NOT a Harden fan. But come on. Simmons is a really good player; James Harden is one of the best scorers to play the game.

I think Simmons and a pick (maybe two) is fair. Asking for 3 picks is ridiculous.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:06 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:45 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:49 pm

I personally am hesitant on Simmons for Harden. I’m a big Simmons fan, but Harden is obviously a better player at the moment. The picks seem excessive to me. I think I’d hold firm at Simmons for Harden straight up. I’d also wait and see what I’ve got with the new lineup around Simmons/Embiid and Doc coaching before I’d pull the trigger.

As for Houston, if I can get Simmons, sign me up. I actually think he’s an ok fit alongside Wall. Wall is not a bad shooter, he’s a significant step up from Westbrook. And he’s a guy who can run the offense in crunch time. He’s not afraid to take shots or get fouled. A 4/5 combo of Simmons/Wood is solid. Add two wing shooters and you’ve got the makings of a good team.

If it were straight up, I think Philly makes out like crazy. They are clearly a better team with that trade, and Houston is a worse team.

Exactly. It isn't even a question if Philly would be better. Harden and Embiid is incredibly superior pairing than Simmons and Embiid. And I like Simmons. And I am NOT a Harden fan. But come on. Simmons is a really good player; James Harden is one of the best scorers to play the game.

I think Simmons and a pick (maybe two) is fair. Asking for 3 picks is ridiculous.

Gotta anchor that price

Even Carter is yelling at Ayton. My God. This might be his low point. The entire team is furious

Giannis just re-signed.

I’m glad, I didn’t think he was going to, but glad he isn’t heading to Miami or dallas next year to form a juggernaut.

player option in 2025

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:28 am

I’m glad, I didn’t think he was going to, but glad he isn’t heading to Miami or dallas next year to form a juggernaut.

And staying in the East, for now.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:28 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:28 am

I’m glad, I didn’t think he was going to, but glad he isn’t heading to Miami or dallas next year to form a juggernaut.

And staying in the East, for now.

I look forward to meeting him in the Finals on our way to our first NBA championship!

Good for the league on the Giannis signing. Keeps small market teams relevant. Stays in the east so helps with balancing. Happy he didn't demand to go to LA like all the other wanna bees like PG.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:10 pm

Even Carter is yelling at Ayton. My God. This might be his low point. The entire team is furious

The issue with Ayton is more complex than just “he doesn’t try hard enough.” Granted, he’s no Alpha dog but when watching the game it was clear that he was lost on how set screens for his ball handlers and struggling to anticipate passes rolling to the hoop. This is Ayton 3.0 right now and it’s a lot to ask a center to play in a new system every year. Prior to this he was a post player, then a playmaker at the top of the key. We should reserve judgment for at least a month on Ayton.
Yesterday was his first time playing pick and roll with Paul.

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:48 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:10 pm

Even Carter is yelling at Ayton. My God. This might be his low point. The entire team is furious

The issue with Ayton is more complex than just “he doesn’t try hard enough.” Granted, he’s no Alpha dog but when watching the game it was clear that he was lost on how set screens for his ball handlers and struggling to anticipate passes rolling to the hoop. This is Ayton 3.0 right now and it’s a lot to ask a center to play in a new system every year. Prior to this he was a post player, then a playmaker at the top of the key. We should reserve judgment for at least a month on Ayton.
Yesterday was his first time playing pick and roll with Paul.

We have no choice but to be patient. We wouldn't have had to be patient had we chosen that other guy. Sigh.