Phx-Suns.Net

Biggest problem with Jonás and often with Zubac is they are stronger than him. They push him around and clean up on the offensive glass. But yes they both have had success scoring over him too. Jokic kinda fits a similar bill, which worries me. He is a touch shorter though I think.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:55 am

I think he’s doing well offensively... Giving us what we need. I’m still hoping for more defensively. Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but just feel like he used to be harder to score on. His ability on the boards has always come and gone with his motor, but feel like he used to be a bigger deterrent at the rim. I feel like nobody ever scored on him 1 on 1, but Zubac did pretty well hitting his little hooks on DA. Just feels like he didn’t offer a lot of deterrence on Powell and Westbrook drives. If they got past their man on the perimeter it was almost always a layup.

I hate how he drops off his man and then they get an easy layup or dunk. I'd rather they let the first guy try to score.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:11 pm

Biggest problem with Jonás and often with Zubac is they are stronger than him. They push him around and clean up on the offensive glass. But yes they both have had success scoring over him too. Jokic kinda fits a similar bill, which worries me. He is a touch shorter though I think.

Plumlee too.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:22 pm

I hate how he drops off his man and then they get an easy layup or dunk. I'd rather they let the first guy try to score.

Ayton does this all the time and it's so annoying. Like a guard will be driving to the basket. That guard will already be covered by his man! But Ayton will leave his own man, the center, to go provide an unnecessary double-team. So the driving guard just passes it to the now-open center who gets a wide open layup or dunk. Ayton doesn't seem to have very good recognition about when he should show a double vs just stay home on his own guy. If the guy driving to the basket already has a man on him in good position, stay home, big fella!

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:30 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:22 pm

I hate how he drops off his man and then they get an easy layup or dunk. I'd rather they let the first guy try to score.

Ayton does this all the time and it's so annoying. Like a guard will be driving to the basket. That guard will already be covered by his man! But Ayton will leave his own man, the center, to go provide an unnecessary double-team. So the driving guard just passes it to the now-open center who gets a wide open layup or dunk. Ayton doesn't seem to have very good recognition about when he should show a double vs just stay home on his own guy. If the guy driving to the basket already has a man on him in good position, stay home, big fella!

Yes, we see this exact situation play out over and over. Cut that out and it will make a big difference.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:22 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:55 am

I think he’s doing well offensively... Giving us what we need. I’m still hoping for more defensively. Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but just feel like he used to be harder to score on. His ability on the boards has always come and gone with his motor, but feel like he used to be a bigger deterrent at the rim. I feel like nobody ever scored on him 1 on 1, but Zubac did pretty well hitting his little hooks on DA. Just feels like he didn’t offer a lot of deterrence on Powell and Westbrook drives. If they got past their man on the perimeter it was almost always a layup.

I hate how he drops off his man and then they get an easy layup or dunk. I'd rather they let the first guy try to score.

He was helping off his man way too much last night. Is that Ayton deciding to do that on his own, or coaching staff telling him to help?

Most of the offensive rebounds also came when Ayton defended the shot, and nobody boxed out Ayton's man.

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:56 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:12 am

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:31 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:24 pm

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:07 pm

I supported re-signing him as an asset and giving him a chance. But he's a waste of a max contract and we should get rid of him. I'd take minimal return so long as it freed up salary, or hopefully at least one usable wing or big back.

Okay this is just getting silly now.

You guys are totally missing how valuable a player like Ayton is to this team. Just to mention one aspect of Ayton’s value that was noticeable last night: since when does a center like Looney or others mentioned in this thread create gravity or draw a bunch of defenders into the paint, opening up the floor for his teammates?

Um he creates nothing for his teammates... KD, Booker and Paul do just fine without him. SMH.

TOO wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:47 pm

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:31 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:24 pm

Okay this is just getting silly now.

You guys are totally missing how valuable a player like Ayton is to this team. Just to mention one aspect of Ayton’s value that was noticeable last night: since when does a center like Looney or others mentioned in this thread create gravity or draw a bunch of defenders into the paint, opening up the floor for his teammates?

Um he creates nothing for his teammates... KD, Booker and Paul do just fine without him. SMH.

All these guys have to create shots for him lol. There's a reason teas always blitz/trap the perimeter guys and let Ayton shoot jumpers to beat them. He can't do anything else.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:23 am

Ayton doesn't "create gravity." Quite the opposite. He needs others like CP3 or KD to create gravity for him, so he can receive an open pass near the basket. I almost never see Ayton catch the ball and draw any double-team or other defenders. The other teams pretty quickly figure out that he's not a player you need to emphasize your defense around, and they guard him accordingly. Sure, sometimes Ayton has nice offensive games, giving you 18-20 points on high-percentage shooting. That isn't nothing. But it's rare, and it usually comes from the fact that the other team is spending its energy guarding other players like Book, KD, and CP3.

Phoenix Suns value Deandre Ayton's contributions in building 3-1 series lead over Clippers
Whether it's scoring, rebounding, diving to the rim to attract defensive attention or set specific screens for Devin Booker, Kevin Durant and Chris Paul, Deandre Ayton is playing a key role for Suns.
Duane Rankin
Arizona Republic
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 148231007/

“Just being a presence on both ends of the floor. Me rolling to the basket, I know that brings so much attention to the rim and so many guys load up on me when I’m rolling to the basket or anywhere around the basket,'' he said. "It gives those guys spaces like KD (Kevin Durant), Chris (Paul) and Book (Devin Booker), they do the rest. Just give them the space and they got it. Just being patient, playing circle ball.”

[...]

“He was just talking about his ability is have to be patient so that he knows what they’re doing and he can react and that is a great value for us,” Williams said.

“He could be frustrated, but he wasn’t. He understands his impact on winning and I just think it’s phenomenal that he’s of that mindset and understands that there’s going to be games where he scores and there’s going to be games where he’s doing what he did in the last two games, where he’s creating a lot of opportunities with space underneath the basket for other people.”

[...]

“Whatever they write about a guy not scoring an X amount, but the pressure that he’s putting on the rim and forcing guys to guard him around the basket is creating so many opportunities for Book and Kevin,” Williams said.

There's a whole dang article on it now--what you guys told me doesn't exist. I guess Monty doesn't have a clue what he's talking about either?

Lol the minute I saw this on AZcentral I knew you were slobbering all over it. The difference between you and the rest of us… we don’t have to go out and TRY to find something to defend ayton; we all have the brains and common sense to know he isn’t all that.

I didn't go out and try to find something. I mentioned an overlooked fact I had noticed that makes Ayton valuable and posted about it on here, only for you guys to tell me it was something that didn't exist.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:54 pm

He was helping off his man way too much last night. Is that Ayton deciding to do that on his own, or coaching staff telling him to help?

Most of the offensive rebounds also came when Ayton defended the shot, and nobody boxed out Ayton's man.

I doubt that Monty is specifically advising Ayton to incorrectly double off his man and give his man wide open dunks and layups, over and over and over. "Hey DA, keep doing that abandon-your-man useless-double-team defense we talked about!"

It's definitely an IQ thing with Ayton, he's not a natural basketball player, so he needs constant reminders. I don't think he processes his defensive assignments and adjustments quick enough so he just tries not to foul.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:15 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:54 pm

He was helping off his man way too much last night. Is that Ayton deciding to do that on his own, or coaching staff telling him to help?

Most of the offensive rebounds also came when Ayton defended the shot, and nobody boxed out Ayton's man.

I doubt that Monty is specifically advising Ayton to incorrectly double off his man and give his man wide open dunks and layups, over and over and over. "Hey DA, keep doing that abandon-your-man useless-double-team defense we talked about!"

I didn't just mean when his man is open near the rim and gets a dunk/layup. I think that only happened a couple times last night. I also don't think him helping on the drives has always been when his teammate has the player well-covered/doesn't need help.

I was also referring to him leaving his man (or just leaving his roaming position in the paint) to guard or double a perimeter or mid-range shooter, which seemed like it was happening even when he wasn't being switched onto them. And then we couldn't get a defensive rebound.

People complain about allowing offensive rebounds or even blame Ayton for the second-chance points, without realizing that the whole reason they are second-chance points is, a lot of the time, because Ayton made the first shooter miss. His teammates have to do a better job of boxing out and getting rebounds in that scenario. Like I said, many times he's guarding the shot quite far from the rim--Ayton can't be expected to grab all of those boards.

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:32 pm

It's definitely an IQ thing with Ayton, he's not a natural basketball player, so he needs constant reminders. I don't think he processes his defensive assignments and adjustments quick enough so he just tries not to foul.

Or lack there of...

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:54 pm

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:56 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:12 am

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:31 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:24 pm

Okay this is just getting silly now.

You guys are totally missing how valuable a player like Ayton is to this team. Just to mention one aspect of Ayton’s value that was noticeable last night: since when does a center like Looney or others mentioned in this thread create gravity or draw a bunch of defenders into the paint, opening up the floor for his teammates?

Um he creates nothing for his teammates... KD, Booker and Paul do just fine without him. SMH.

TOO wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:47 pm

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:31 pm

Um he creates nothing for his teammates... KD, Booker and Paul do just fine without him. SMH.

All these guys have to create shots for him lol. There's a reason teas always blitz/trap the perimeter guys and let Ayton shoot jumpers to beat them. He can't do anything else.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:23 am

Ayton doesn't "create gravity." Quite the opposite. He needs others like CP3 or KD to create gravity for him, so he can receive an open pass near the basket. I almost never see Ayton catch the ball and draw any double-team or other defenders. The other teams pretty quickly figure out that he's not a player you need to emphasize your defense around, and they guard him accordingly. Sure, sometimes Ayton has nice offensive games, giving you 18-20 points on high-percentage shooting. That isn't nothing. But it's rare, and it usually comes from the fact that the other team is spending its energy guarding other players like Book, KD, and CP3.

Phoenix Suns value Deandre Ayton's contributions in building 3-1 series lead over Clippers
Whether it's scoring, rebounding, diving to the rim to attract defensive attention or set specific screens for Devin Booker, Kevin Durant and Chris Paul, Deandre Ayton is playing a key role for Suns.
Duane Rankin
Arizona Republic
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 148231007/

“Just being a presence on both ends of the floor. Me rolling to the basket, I know that brings so much attention to the rim and so many guys load up on me when I’m rolling to the basket or anywhere around the basket,'' he said. "It gives those guys spaces like KD (Kevin Durant), Chris (Paul) and Book (Devin Booker), they do the rest. Just give them the space and they got it. Just being patient, playing circle ball.”

[...]

“He was just talking about his ability is have to be patient so that he knows what they’re doing and he can react and that is a great value for us,” Williams said.

“He could be frustrated, but he wasn’t. He understands his impact on winning and I just think it’s phenomenal that he’s of that mindset and understands that there’s going to be games where he scores and there’s going to be games where he’s doing what he did in the last two games, where he’s creating a lot of opportunities with space underneath the basket for other people.”

[...]

“Whatever they write about a guy not scoring an X amount, but the pressure that he’s putting on the rim and forcing guys to guard him around the basket is creating so many opportunities for Book and Kevin,” Williams said.

There's a whole dang article on it now--what you guys told me doesn't exist. I guess Monty doesn't have a clue what he's talking about either?

Lol the minute I saw this on AZcentral I knew you were slobbering all over it. The difference between you and the rest of us… we don’t have to go out and TRY to find something to defend ayton; we all have the brains and common sense to know he isn’t all that.

I didn't go out and try to find something. I mentioned an overlooked fact I had noticed that makes Ayton valuable and posted about it on here, only for you guys to tell me it was something that didn't exist.

Sure, bud

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:16 am

The sooner the organization ships out that half ass effort, inconsistent 7ft center, the quicker we can approach a championship. It's the goddamn playoffs and he still doesn't know how to show up. You've got KD out rebounding him and getting 3 blocks. Where the fuck is our useless giant?

Durant: 8.7 rpg in 42.5 mpg (7.3 reb per 36)

Ayton: 10.5 rpg in 33.7 mpg (11.2 reb per 36)

Ayton: 6'11"

Durant: 6'10" (most say he's taller than that)

Ayton out there rebounding like Troy fucking Murphy snatching with two teammates surrounding him.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:09 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:16 am

The sooner the organization ships out that half ass effort, inconsistent 7ft center, the quicker we can approach a championship. It's the goddamn playoffs and he still doesn't know how to show up. You've got KD out rebounding him and getting 3 blocks. Where the fuck is our useless giant?

Durant: 8.7 rpg in 42.5 mpg (7.3 reb per 36)

Ayton: 10.5 rpg in 33.7 mpg (11.2 reb per 36)

Ayton: 6'11"

Durant: 6'10" (most say he's taller than that)

I'm talking about game 1 against Denver when he looked like he had bong rips before the game based on his half assed nonchalant effort. And you know that was my point. Not his regular season comparison to Durant.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:47 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:09 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:16 am

The sooner the organization ships out that half ass effort, inconsistent 7ft center, the quicker we can approach a championship. It's the goddamn playoffs and he still doesn't know how to show up. You've got KD out rebounding him and getting 3 blocks. Where the fuck is our useless giant?

Durant: 8.7 rpg in 42.5 mpg (7.3 reb per 36)

Ayton: 10.5 rpg in 33.7 mpg (11.2 reb per 36)

Ayton: 6'11"

Durant: 6'10" (most say he's taller than that)

I'm talking about game 1 against Denver when he looked like he had bong rips before the game based on his half assed nonchalant effort. And you know that was my point. Not his regular season comparison to Durant.

You said playoffs. That's their playoffs stats. Not regular season. I thought that was obvious, since Durant doesn't play 42.5 mpg in the regular season.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:56 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:47 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:09 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:16 am

The sooner the organization ships out that half ass effort, inconsistent 7ft center, the quicker we can approach a championship. It's the goddamn playoffs and he still doesn't know how to show up. You've got KD out rebounding him and getting 3 blocks. Where the fuck is our useless giant?

Durant: 8.7 rpg in 42.5 mpg (7.3 reb per 36)

Ayton: 10.5 rpg in 33.7 mpg (11.2 reb per 36)

Ayton: 6'11"

Durant: 6'10" (most say he's taller than that)

I'm talking about game 1 against Denver when he looked like he had bong rips before the game based on his half assed nonchalant effort. And you know that was my point. Not his regular season comparison to Durant.

You said playoffs. That's their playoffs stats. Not regular season. I thought that was obvious, since Durant doesn't play 42.5 mpg in the regular season.

Are you seriously going to argue with anyone here that Ayton is playing to his worth this postseason? Especially this past game against Denver? Or is it Monty's fault Ayton has a shit motor because he's playing Ayton on the perimeter (which he's not)? Eventually you need to open your eyes and admit Ayton has been disappointing as hell this postseason and absolutely terrible game 1 vs Denver.

Looney currently providing the blueprint for Ayton. Absolute monster on the glass.

Warriors have 13 offensive rebounds in the 3rd Q…warriors can’t make a ft though

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 2:18 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:56 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:47 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:09 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:16 am

The sooner the organization ships out that half ass effort, inconsistent 7ft center, the quicker we can approach a championship. It's the goddamn playoffs and he still doesn't know how to show up. You've got KD out rebounding him and getting 3 blocks. Where the fuck is our useless giant?

Durant: 8.7 rpg in 42.5 mpg (7.3 reb per 36)

Ayton: 10.5 rpg in 33.7 mpg (11.2 reb per 36)

Ayton: 6'11"

Durant: 6'10" (most say he's taller than that)

I'm talking about game 1 against Denver when he looked like he had bong rips before the game based on his half assed nonchalant effort. And you know that was my point. Not his regular season comparison to Durant.

You said playoffs. That's their playoffs stats. Not regular season. I thought that was obvious, since Durant doesn't play 42.5 mpg in the regular season.

Are you seriously going to argue with anyone here that Ayton is playing to his worth this postseason? Especially this past game against Denver? Or is it Monty's fault Ayton has a shit motor because he's playing Ayton on the perimeter (which he's not)? Eventually you need to open your eyes and admit Ayton has been disappointing as hell this postseason and absolutely terrible game 1 vs Denver.

Sure, if "absolutely terrible" is defined as defending Jokic better than anyone else possibly could. The 19-7 rebounding discrepancy is not good, but I see no reason to focus on it when it's not going to happen in the next game, or ever again this series. Just like KD's 7 turnovers aren't worth talking about, since it's not going to keep happening.