2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread

[JeremyG]

If two of your stated goals as owner are fan experience and winning over money, then yes he was worth the luxury tax payments.

He was not good last year…he had a .51 TS% and that was the 2nd year in a row. He couldn’t stay healthy either. He was not worth 26 million

If two of your stated goals as owner are fan experience and winning over money, then yes he was worth the luxury tax payments.

Payne isn't affecting either of those. A few dances ain't worth 26m. They brought Lee in off the streets and he looked better than Payne last year. And don't give me the Payne game in the playoffs, it was a good game, in a season where he was not good, it doesn't mean anything.

He always stepped up when he needed to start for CP3--I would even argue that he was better as a starter than a bench guy which is why I thought Vogel talking about him possibly starting made some sense.

In the 14 game stretch last season where he started while CP3 was injured, he averaged 31.5 mpg, 15.1 ppg, 7.3 apg, 3.0 rpg, 1.0 spg, .395 3P%. And we went 9-5 (.643) over that span, while we were .549 (45-37) for the season.

[Split T]

He’ll put up numbers because he has the ball…and especially with CP3 out last year he had to be the only ball handler on the court for awhile. His TS% in those 15 starts was still .518. That’s bad.

He made more sense for us when we had CP3 and we lacked ball handlers in our offense. We don’t really lack that anymore. Yes it would be nice to have someone like Payne as the 5th guard if Booker or Beal got hurt, but I do kinda feel like Saben Lee can fill that role nearly as well and doesn’t cost 26 million.

We also need to wait and see what happens. It very much sounds like we tried to get TJ McConnell for Payne so we may still be trying to acquire a pg. Two names I’ve seen us connected to over the last couple months at one time or another are Payton Pritchard and Davion Mitchell. Both would be acquirable into one of our TPE’s.

[TOO]

He missed 60+ games over 2 seasons and ran hot and cold when he played. But you keep being a contrarian man, you seem to enjoy it.

[JeremyG]

I don’t understand your logic there, but we’ll see. Not saying it means they will trade him, but I definitely don’t subscribe to the idea that they won’t.

The logic is that If they traded away two point guards that he liked, they're not going to really upset him by trading away his starting center also, that he's pushed hard to keep. Especially when center is the most important position in his system.

And his talking these players up was not just to try to increase their trade value. He genuinely means what he's said. He had breakfast with CP3 right before the trade happened--he was really looking forward to working with him. He met with Cam Payne recently as well.

He pushed hard to keep Ayton, and he successfully convinced the front office to let him coach DA.

Fair, but it could also mean that the front office doesn’t actually care that much about what Vogel says. It also could mean that it’s Vogel’s job to be close to and get excited about the players on his team.

I guess Monty must have received a different job description then.

The point is that it's already been reported that they listened to Vogel's wishes and are keeping DA. Most of the rumors included Payne being traded with DA anyway, in order to be able to take back more salary.

[JeremyG]

He’ll put up numbers because he has the ball…and especially with CP3 out last year he had to be the only ball handler on the court for awhile. His TS% in those 15 starts was still .518. That’s bad.

He made more sense for us when we had CP3 and we lacked ball handlers in our offense. We don’t really lack that anymore. Yes it would be nice to have someone like Payne as the 5th guard if Booker or Beal got hurt, but I do kinda feel like Saben Lee can fill that role nearly as well and doesn’t cost 26 million.

We also need to wait and see what happens. It very much sounds like we tried to get TJ McConnell for Payne so we may still be trying to acquire a pg. Two names I’ve seen us connected to over the last couple months at one time or another are Payton Pritchard and Davion Mitchell. Both would be acquirable into one of our TPE’s.

That is possible and it would get rid of my salary dumping criticism. But using the TPE on a PG only emphasises my other point--why not keep the fan favorite and some continuity, if you're going to spend the money anyway?

[JeremyG]

By the way, for people who were saying DA can't score/play well without CP3 and/or with Payne, in those 14 Payne starts, Ayton averaged 18.1 ppg on 65.1% FG, 10.6 rpg, 2.5 apg. Better than his season averages.

[Split T]

Because Payne doesn’t really provide what they need anymore. I’d say they need more of a defensive minded guy that can play off ball and hit open 3s. Payne tries hard on defense, but he’s often a liability. I’m not sure Pritchard or Mitchell would be the answer, but they do have better track records defensively. McConnell certainly did(although he is a non-shooter).

Goodwin provides the defense and some potential playmaking…tbd on the shooting.

The other idea might be that we are also doing Payne a favor and letting him get more of an opportunity to play. There could be a lot of pg minutes in San Antonio available.

When it comes down to it, I just don’t think Payne was that good. I get what you’re saying about it being a salary dump…but if that’s the price we have to pay, so be it. Ishbia put his money where his mouth is on a lot of other moves…I’m cool if he saves some money on the back third of the roster if he spends it on the front 2/3rds.

Remember he salary dumped Saric last year as well.

[JeremyG]

Players still on the roster from May 2022 when we lost to the Mavericks:

Deandre Ayton
Devin Booker
Ish Wainright

[BKinSJC]

Players still on the roster from May 2022 when we lost to the Mavericks:

Deandre Ayton
Devin Booker
Ish Wainright

A couple of guys that are obviously foundational to the organization going forward, that are so beloved that you can hardly even imagine the kind of offer it would take to get them out of Phoenix.

And also Deandre Ayton.

(I kid, I kid ... mostly ...)

[Shabazz]

On the continuity thing, take a look at our roster in the ‘21 finals. Other than Mikal and Cam, I’m not shedding a tear over any of those guys being gone when you consider our present day roster.

Nader? Kaminsky? Galloway? Stix? Vaya con dios.

[The Bobster]

I took a look at the Suns' 3 Finals teams to find out just how many were still on the roster 3 seasons later -

1976 Finals Team on 1978-79 team - Alvan Adams, Gar Heard, Paul Westphal
1992 Finals Team on 1994-95 team - Danny Ainge, Charles Barkley, Richard Dumas, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle
2021 Finals Team on 2023-24 team - DeAndre Ayton, Devin Booker

From the 1976 team Westphal and Heard were gone by the 1980-81 season,leaving only Adams.
From the 1992 team Ainge, Dumas and Majerle were gone by the 1995-96 season opener, leaving only Barkley and Johnson.

[Superbone]

Feels like they are still cooking something.

Probably the avatar.

[Superbone]

New television contract with over-the-air broadcasts (with a new broadcasting team)

Do we know that?

[JNix]

I like Payne as a fan favorite type, but lets be honest, he was pretty bad last 2 years. He had a game here or there or a short stretch where he gave us a spark, but not shedding a tear over Payne.

And those that are saying Ishbia saving money, we created a TPE, lets see if he uses it before saying the guy was trying to save money. THere are a lot of players that make less than 6 mil that are better than Payne.

As for Bol, I really like it. people acting like he is gonna start for us. Hes a young developmental big who is only 23. My friends a die hard Magic fan and said he wasnt really sure why they let him go. Most of the Magic fanbase seemed pretty high on Bol and feel like he should have been let go.

[The Bobster]

New television contract with over-the-air broadcasts (with a new broadcasting team)

Do we know that?

Well, I should have been more clear - a new radio broadcast team.

And it is official that Diamond Sports has declined to match the deal that the Suns and Mercury had agreed upon with Gray Television to show them over-the-air, which is great news for fans as there will be much better access to their games.

[AmareIsGod]

It's amazing to me how much some people undervalue Cam Payne. He was literally our leading scorer in our last playoff game--a game in which Kevin Durant and Devin Booker both played.

Jesus man. He was absent on the bench in street clothes the vast majority of the season and playoffs. Give it a rest. He's not worth the money he was owed as an end of the bench, sometimes healthy guard.

[The Bobster]

Is this the future of the new NBA where the middle class is slowly squeezed out? -

Durant - $46,407,433
Beal - $46,741,590
Booker - $36,016,200
Ayton - $32,459,438
11 others on minimum contracts - $25,067,429

Granted, the suns are an extreme with their lack of players signed on exceptions due to cap restrictions, but it looks like we will see more and more players having to settle for minimum contracts.

[The Bobster]

It's amazing to me how much some people undervalue Cam Payne. He was literally our leading scorer in our last playoff game--a game in which Kevin Durant and Devin Booker both played.

Jesus man. He was absent on the bench in street clothes the vast majority of the season and playoffs. Give it a rest. He's not worth the money he was owed as an end of the bench, sometimes healthy guard.

Being top scorer in a 25-point blowout loss to end the season isn't much to hang your hat on. He was good from time-to-time over the last couple of years, but there was also extended periods where he didn't produce consistantly or was unavailable.

[pickle]

I would jump all over Davion. Why Sacramento would make him available tho is beyond me.

[djy2j]

It's amazing to me how much some people undervalue Cam Payne. He was literally our leading scorer in our last playoff game--a game in which Kevin Durant and Devin Booker both played.

I mostly loved Cam's time in Phx but I wouldn't use that 25 point loss as the example. He had 31 in a game that was pretty much over by halftime and they were doubling Booker and Durant. Payne had open looks all game so i mean...