Phx-Suns.Net

I figured after five years with the Suns, Len at least deserves a thread where we can talk about his time here. I wish the best for him but he just couldn't live up to the hype of the 5th pick of the first round. However, it's not his fault that we picked him 5th. McD missed on this one and it therefore set us back a bit.

It appears that he will serve as the back up center for the Hawks. Here's an article that thinks he may be able to thrive in this role with the pressure of being the 5th pick gone:

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/7/2 ... ree-agency

Len is probably a "third team" guy. I heard that term the other day. He'll probably learn a bunch playing on the Hawks, and recalibrate himself in terms of how good he is, feeling entitled to a starting role / minutes / big contract, etc. And then right about the time that he starts to really click, he'll finish his contract and go to a third team and finally be a meaningful contributor.

I think Len was a bit underrated here on this site and by Suns fans overall. He wasn't a great center, and he probably wasn't worth what he was asking for to stay here. And he didn't really fit going forward with Ayton on the roster. But I do think he could have been a serviceable starting NBA center if we had a good PG who could run the offense, big men coaches who could have taught him what to do, etc. He just looked like nobody was teaching him.

I still think he will have a good career. We tend to give up on talented big men when they are still young. If you draft these guys after 1 year of NCAA, they need a lot of years of learning before they can do it at this level.

Underrated???? Most people here wanted to sign him to a deal at 10-12 million per year.

Quite opposite, he was and continues to be incredibly overrated here.

I think we just have two extremes when it comes to Len...we have the pro Len crowd who thought he was worth paying 10 million and the anti Len crowd who didn't want him for the minimum...I was in the latter group and there was a few of us. That's probably what Mori is talking about...

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:50 pm

However, it's not his fault that we picked him 5th. McD missed on this one and it therefore set us back a bit.

The only guys McD missed on with that pick are Giannis and Gobert. A lot of teams missed on those guys.

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:50 pm

However, it's not his fault that we picked him 5th. McD missed on this one and it therefore set us back a bit.

The only guys McD missed on with that pick are Giannis and Gobert. A lot of teams missed on those guys.

I'd add McCollum and Adams to that list

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:11 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:50 pm

However, it's not his fault that we picked him 5th. McD missed on this one and it therefore set us back a bit.

The only guys McD missed on with that pick are Giannis and Gobert. A lot of teams missed on those guys.

I'd add McCollum and Adams to that list

Yes, you’re right.

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:30 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:11 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:50 pm

However, it's not his fault that we picked him 5th. McD missed on this one and it therefore set us back a bit.

The only guys McD missed on with that pick are Giannis and Gobert. A lot of teams missed on those guys.

I'd add McCollum and Adams to that list

Yes, you’re right.

Still, all would have been seen as pretty big reaches at 5.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:47 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:30 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:11 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:50 pm

However, it's not his fault that we picked him 5th. McD missed on this one and it therefore set us back a bit.

The only guys McD missed on with that pick are Giannis and Gobert. A lot of teams missed on those guys.

I'd add McCollum and Adams to that list

Yes, you’re right.

Still, all would have been seen as pretty big reaches at 5.

And now? Genius. Which outcome is preferable?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:52 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:47 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:30 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:11 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 pm

The only guys McD missed on with that pick are Giannis and Gobert. A lot of teams missed on those guys.

I'd add McCollum and Adams to that list

Yes, you’re right.

Still, all would have been seen as pretty big reaches at 5.

And now? Genius. Which outcome is preferable?

Well if you can pick out the steals, then that's preferable... My point is no one thought those guys would be this good... You'd have to do some guessing... And in that case you might end up with Sergey karasev at #5...

Just look the Cavs that year.. They tried to get clever and ended up with Anthony Bennett at 1

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:47 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:30 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:11 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:50 pm

However, it's not his fault that we picked him 5th. McD missed on this one and it therefore set us back a bit.

The only guys McD missed on with that pick are Giannis and Gobert. A lot of teams missed on those guys.

I'd add McCollum and Adams to that list

Yes, you’re right.

Still, all would have been seen as pretty big reaches at 5.

Yeah, I agree better with Split. If we can re do draft taking into account the out-nowhere stars, and high risk guys that panned out, we lose perspective. Nobody would have projected Giannis on the place he is right now, even then he was seen as a swing for the fences... and sometimes you connect, sometimes you take Alex Len.

Good for both sides to move on. I can't place 100% blame on Len. This franchise was at it's peak ineptness when he came aboard. I wish him the best.

Trae Young will make him look good. In all his time here, he never played with a PG that got him those 6-8 easy points per game that would have made him look a lot better.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:15 pm

Trae Young will make him look good. In all his time here, he never played with a PG that got him those 6-8 easy points per game that would have made him look a lot better.

Agreed. His time here coincides with the lowest point of the franchise. Some of that is certainly attributable to him, but the place was burning all around him too.

I had a lot of hopes in Len. He would have a great game and then a dud of a game. He did improve over time and I think he is a decent Center now. I felt Len was ready to step into the starters position and then we got Chandler and made him the starter. I’m not sure how that affected Len’s game or attitude. I would have been a little upset if I was Len at the time. Oh well, we now have Ayton and are starting a new chapter. Ayton will hopefully turn into a beast and we will forget all about the years wasted on Len.

Nodack wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:37 am

I had a lot of hopes in Len. He would have a great game and then a dud of a game. He did improve over time and I think he is a decent Center now. I felt Len was ready to step into the starters position and then we got Chandler and made him the starter. I’m not sure how that affected Len’s game or attitude. I would have been a little upset if I was Len at the time. Oh well, we now have Ayton and are starting a new chapter. Ayton will hopefully turn into a beast and we will forget all about the years wasted on Len.

I hope you're right on the last part. Len got stuck in between the Suns wanting to lose, but not losing and then clear tanking but poor coaching. I also had high hopes for him. He never showed the athleticism I thought he had coming out of college, nor the midrange shot. His hands were suspect, but didn't realize that when he was coming out, as I thought he just had terrible guards. Perhaps they didn't throw him the ball for a reason, haha.

Too bad the Suns didn't use their 2 first round picks to take Giannis and Gobert, plus future assets.

Len had terrible hands to start with and even if he managed to catch the ball in the post it would usually end up in a turnover after they stripped him. He finally started to keep the ball above his head more ofter which yielded better results. Also the Suns kind of sucked at getting the ball to him where he could make an impact.

Your right, we were trying to lose as well at times. I am not going to play the could of should of game with picks. Nobody ever really knows how a pick is going to turn out. Top picks can turn into duds and lower picks can turn into diamonds. You just don’t know until they play in the NBA for awhile. Sometimes they blossom the first year. Sometimes it takes several years before it clicks on. Sometimes they get hurt. Sometimes they just don’t pan out. Calling it a Lottery is a good name.

Comparing Len to Giannis and Gobert is definitely a hindsight 20/20 situation, but how many on this board wish we took Noel instead, given hindsight, as that was a legit possibility back then? Just out of curiosity.

To me Noel is more impactful on the court when his head is right, but I guess with the whole Watson experiment it might have been difficult to get his head right here. Personally I sill think we could've built up Noel's value more than we did with Len and could've at least turned him into something had we not liked where the off the court situation was going.

pickle wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:35 am

Comparing Len to Giannis and Gobert is definitely a hindsight 20/20 situation, but how many on this board wish we took Noel instead, given hindsight, as that was a legit possibility back then? Just out of curiosity.

To me Noel is more impactful on the court when his head is right, but I guess with the whole Watson experiment it might have been difficult to get his head right here. Personally I sill think we could've built up Noel's value more than we did with Len and could've at least turned him into something had we not liked where the off the court situation was going.

The coaching staffs that we have haven't been able to do much with Len or Bender or Chriss so I don't see any evidence that they could have done anything with Noel.

I did want Noel at the time, and I'd take him over Len right now, but neither really panned out, so I'm not going to fret over it.