Democratic primary watch

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In2ition
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:25 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:13 pm
Nodack wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:21 am
I haven’t studied her green plan at all. I just hear bits and pieces from the peanut gallery. I heard she wants to do away with all airplanes and only use trains across the ocean? I have a feeling some people are interpreting her not quite so accurately. She does come across as a young naive person who thinks they have all the answers when they don’t. Her views seem to be left of center by a ways. I am more moderate. I just wish we could all work together better as a nation but, I know that is impossible since we are at war with each other.
Here is the link to the actual documentation for it. It is very short for a bill, which means there are nearly no details in it. Basically it says we should strive to reduce green house emissions, ensure clean water, and do so by investing in upgraded infrastructure across the US (thereby creating a lot of jobs). It all sounds good, but there are no details on how it would happen... As for the trains, it does say we should have better mass transit, including high speed trains. But unless I missed it, there is nothing about building train tracks across the Atlantic Ocean.

https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/sites/o ... 20Deal.pdf
It looks like it was revised quite a bit yesterday, taking out a lot of details that were in it prior.
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In2ition
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:26 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 am
In2ition wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:38 am
I've heard some suggest that they change the minimum age to run for President so that AOC can run. Any thoughts on this? Any thoughts on the Green New Deal?
I am really curious who is actually suggesting an amendment to the Constitution so she can run.
Mehdi Hasan and then Vox were the two I found with a quick search. I don't remember seeing who particularly was promoting it prior.
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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:32 pm

In2ition wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:26 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 am
In2ition wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:38 am
I've heard some suggest that they change the minimum age to run for President so that AOC can run. Any thoughts on this? Any thoughts on the Green New Deal?
I am really curious who is actually suggesting an amendment to the Constitution so she can run.
Mehdi Hasan and then Vox were the two I found with a quick search. I don't remember seeing who particularly was promoting it prior.
I assume that is all hyperbole, since everyone knows there would be no way to get an amendment passed at all, much less in time for it to matter. This is all regardless of her qualifications (but I guess that didn't matter last time either...).

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:48 pm

Frankly no one serious is suggesting lowering the Presidential eligibility age so that AOC could run. Many Dems like her, particularly ones who are further to the left. But they don't want her running for POTUS right away. Maybe someday, if at all.

Most of the enthusiasm about her can be equated to enthusiasm for progressive policies that the Democrats have been reluctant to campaign on. Universal health care, urgent environmental legislation (which could broadly be called the "Green New Deal"), criminal justice reform, campaign finance reform, substantial marginal tax increases on billionaires, etc. are all policies that are getting young Democrats fired up, and AOC unlike most Dem politicians is willing to jump right out and say that she wants these things. A lot of Democrats want people to champion their policies, and she's doing that.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:56 pm

^ Additionally: She is definitely pitching these ideas imperfectly. She makes mistakes, she screws up numbers, she gaffes, she says things that are wrong. You can pick apart a lot of her speeches or statements, certainly. I think what is going on here is that young Democrats, particularly left-leaning ones, would rather hear somebody imperfectly pitch the "right" solution than a more polished pitch for the "wrong" ideas. They want somebody championing these things, even if they make a few oopsies along the way. Too many career politicians become good at being safe, being polished, not rocking the boat, focusing more on the status quo and on not upsetting anybody so they can get reelected. AOC is fighting for what she thinks is right even if she exposes her own ignorance and human imperfection in the process. She's being "real" about it. That is refreshing in today's politics.

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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by ShelC » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:17 pm

Like Trump, she's a social media star and a magnet for attention on both sides. I do think it's hypocritical for people to poke fun at her intelligence, gaffes or naivete given the current President and administration. And the far right has already been on the attack with false rumors, stories, digging into her past (the dance video), releasing her credit score, etc. At the very least. AOC seems to have the right intentions based on helping those in need and that scares those in power.

This video has been making the rounds the past couple of days. It's nice to see this stuff brought to light so clearly and publicly.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1093993252427055104


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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:43 pm

This probably sounds racist, sexist and agist to a lot of people, but I'd trust a young woman of color before an old white man. We've seen plenty of the latter, and I'm not enthused with the results.
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:53 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:56 pm
^ Additionally: She is definitely pitching these ideas imperfectly. She makes mistakes, she screws up numbers, she gaffes, she says things that are wrong. You can pick apart a lot of her speeches or statements, certainly.
Sounds familiar. She'd fit right in.
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Superbone » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:59 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:43 pm
This probably sounds racist, sexist and agist to a lot of people, but I'd trust a young woman of color before an old white man. We've seen plenty of the latter, and I'm not enthused with the results.
For exactly the reasons she lays out.
O_Gardino: "Ntilikina is going to lead the NBA in assists once he gets going[2025]..."

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Nodack
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Nodack » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:39 pm

I liked her speech a lot. I like the way she laid out her case saying its totally acceptable and legal for politicians to be bought by special interest groups. I’m starting to like her more and more.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:15 am

Today Bernie Sanders officially announces that he is running for President in 2020. This was expected, but now it's official.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/67692300 ... n-underdog

I think I've said before in this space that I am not really rooting for Bernie. If he's the nominee I'll support him, and I do think he has done a good job of getting the Democratic Party to adopt some important leftward positions such as universal health care. But I don't think I want him as POTUS. He's too divisive; he doesn't seem super willing to compromise. He seems to make EVERYthing about 99% vs 1%, even on issues that seem to have nothing to do with that framing. And his lack of effort in reaching out to non-white Democrat voters concerns me; the fact that they chose Hillary over him in large numbers says something. I also frankly think he's too old; I want a bit younger face as the leader of our country.

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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:58 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:15 am
Today Bernie Sanders officially announces that he is running for President in 2020. This was expected, but now it's official.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/67692300 ... n-underdog

I think I've said before in this space that I am not really rooting for Bernie. If he's the nominee I'll support him, and I do think he has done a good job of getting the Democratic Party to adopt some important leftward positions such as universal health care. But I don't think I want him as POTUS. He's too divisive; he doesn't seem super willing to compromise. He seems to make EVERYthing about 99% vs 1%, even on issues that seem to have nothing to do with that framing. And his lack of effort in reaching out to non-white Democrat voters concerns me; the fact that they chose Hillary over him in large numbers says something. I also frankly think he's too old; I want a bit younger face as the leader of our country.
I don't understand his or anyone's fascination with socialism and the 99% vs 1%.
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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 am

I have a hard time seeing how Bernie will get the nomination. They can say it was rigged against him last time, but really the Democratic Party nomination is effectively rigged at anyone that isn't a Democrat. Just like the GOP one, or even the Green Party. Even without super delegates, Bernie couldn't get enough votes. He is divisive and has been pretty vocal against women in the past (and you already brought up his race issues).

With the others running, I don't see what he brings to the table in any facet that is better than the others.

And I would expect more about his russia ties once the Mueller report comes out.

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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:02 am

In2ition wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:58 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:15 am
Today Bernie Sanders officially announces that he is running for President in 2020. This was expected, but now it's official.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/67692300 ... n-underdog

I think I've said before in this space that I am not really rooting for Bernie. If he's the nominee I'll support him, and I do think he has done a good job of getting the Democratic Party to adopt some important leftward positions such as universal health care. But I don't think I want him as POTUS. He's too divisive; he doesn't seem super willing to compromise. He seems to make EVERYthing about 99% vs 1%, even on issues that seem to have nothing to do with that framing. And his lack of effort in reaching out to non-white Democrat voters concerns me; the fact that they chose Hillary over him in large numbers says something. I also frankly think he's too old; I want a bit younger face as the leader of our country.
I don't understand his or anyone's fascination with socialism and the 99% vs 1%.
I assume you support plenty of socialism, but you don't think of it as socialism because it has been around for so long.

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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:22 am

Indy wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 am
I have a hard time seeing how Bernie will get the nomination. They can say it was rigged against him last time, but really the Democratic Party nomination is effectively rigged at anyone that isn't a Democrat. Just like the GOP one, or even the Green Party. Even without super delegates, Bernie couldn't get enough votes. He is divisive and has been pretty vocal against women in the past (and you already brought up his race issues).

With the others running, I don't see what he brings to the table in any facet that is better than the others.

And I would expect more about his russia ties once the Mueller report comes out.
Maybe it's my skepticism, but I don't expect anything to come out on any Democrats on the Mueller investigation, and in fact he's probably doing his best to avoid any investigation on any line that might lead to Democrats.
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:24 am

Indy wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:02 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:58 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:15 am
Today Bernie Sanders officially announces that he is running for President in 2020. This was expected, but now it's official.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/67692300 ... n-underdog

I think I've said before in this space that I am not really rooting for Bernie. If he's the nominee I'll support him, and I do think he has done a good job of getting the Democratic Party to adopt some important leftward positions such as universal health care. But I don't think I want him as POTUS. He's too divisive; he doesn't seem super willing to compromise. He seems to make EVERYthing about 99% vs 1%, even on issues that seem to have nothing to do with that framing. And his lack of effort in reaching out to non-white Democrat voters concerns me; the fact that they chose Hillary over him in large numbers says something. I also frankly think he's too old; I want a bit younger face as the leader of our country.
I don't understand his or anyone's fascination with socialism and the 99% vs 1%.
I assume you support plenty of socialism, but you don't think of it as socialism because it has been around for so long.
You may be right about that. I'm speaking of full blown socialism because of you know...evil capitalism.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:24 am

In2ition wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:22 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 am
I have a hard time seeing how Bernie will get the nomination. They can say it was rigged against him last time, but really the Democratic Party nomination is effectively rigged at anyone that isn't a Democrat. Just like the GOP one, or even the Green Party. Even without super delegates, Bernie couldn't get enough votes. He is divisive and has been pretty vocal against women in the past (and you already brought up his race issues).

With the others running, I don't see what he brings to the table in any facet that is better than the others.

And I would expect more about his russia ties once the Mueller report comes out.
Maybe it's my skepticism, but I don't expect anything to come out on any Democrats on the Mueller investigation, and in fact he's probably doing his best to avoid any investigation on any line that might lead to Democrats.
Why? He is a lifelong member of the GOP. You think he is biased?

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Indy
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by Indy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:25 am

In2ition wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:24 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:02 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:58 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:15 am
Today Bernie Sanders officially announces that he is running for President in 2020. This was expected, but now it's official.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/67692300 ... n-underdog

I think I've said before in this space that I am not really rooting for Bernie. If he's the nominee I'll support him, and I do think he has done a good job of getting the Democratic Party to adopt some important leftward positions such as universal health care. But I don't think I want him as POTUS. He's too divisive; he doesn't seem super willing to compromise. He seems to make EVERYthing about 99% vs 1%, even on issues that seem to have nothing to do with that framing. And his lack of effort in reaching out to non-white Democrat voters concerns me; the fact that they chose Hillary over him in large numbers says something. I also frankly think he's too old; I want a bit younger face as the leader of our country.
I don't understand his or anyone's fascination with socialism and the 99% vs 1%.
I assume you support plenty of socialism, but you don't think of it as socialism because it has been around for so long.
You may be right about that. I'm speaking of full blown socialism because of you know...evil capitalism.
Can you tell me what you mean by full blown socialism? I am curious what that means to different people.

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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 am

Indy wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:24 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:22 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 am
I have a hard time seeing how Bernie will get the nomination. They can say it was rigged against him last time, but really the Democratic Party nomination is effectively rigged at anyone that isn't a Democrat. Just like the GOP one, or even the Green Party. Even without super delegates, Bernie couldn't get enough votes. He is divisive and has been pretty vocal against women in the past (and you already brought up his race issues).

With the others running, I don't see what he brings to the table in any facet that is better than the others.

And I would expect more about his russia ties once the Mueller report comes out.
Maybe it's my skepticism, but I don't expect anything to come out on any Democrats on the Mueller investigation, and in fact he's probably doing his best to avoid any investigation on any line that might lead to Democrats.
Why? He is a lifelong member of the GOP. You think he is biased?
I think the overall goal is to tie anything and anyone to Trump to Russia and/or any other wrong doings. I don't think he has any interest in anyone that isn't linked to Trump. For whatever reason. Not saying that's good or bad, but that's just my perception on what's been reported and possibly leaked.
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Re: Democratic primary watch

Post by In2ition » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:55 am

Indy wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:25 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:24 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:02 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:58 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:15 am
Today Bernie Sanders officially announces that he is running for President in 2020. This was expected, but now it's official.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/67692300 ... n-underdog

I think I've said before in this space that I am not really rooting for Bernie. If he's the nominee I'll support him, and I do think he has done a good job of getting the Democratic Party to adopt some important leftward positions such as universal health care. But I don't think I want him as POTUS. He's too divisive; he doesn't seem super willing to compromise. He seems to make EVERYthing about 99% vs 1%, even on issues that seem to have nothing to do with that framing. And his lack of effort in reaching out to non-white Democrat voters concerns me; the fact that they chose Hillary over him in large numbers says something. I also frankly think he's too old; I want a bit younger face as the leader of our country.
I don't understand his or anyone's fascination with socialism and the 99% vs 1%.
I assume you support plenty of socialism, but you don't think of it as socialism because it has been around for so long.
You may be right about that. I'm speaking of full blown socialism because of you know...evil capitalism.
Can you tell me what you mean by full blown socialism? I am curious what that means to different people.
When Venezuela moved in this direction, everyone and their mother with sympathies to socialism said to look to this, as it's going to be the first proper socialism example...until it failed too.

Also, anything that AOC or Bernie advocates which is supposed to completely fix the gap between the evil 1% and the 99%, and thinks that financial equality for everyone should be the goal.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

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