The Wall

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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The Wall

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:38 am

President Trump is giving an address to the nation tomorrow, Tue 1/8, that will air live on CBS and other networks. He claims it will be about the border. I've read that he will likely declare a "state of national emergency" that thereby grants him the power to order the building of a wall even without any funding or any votes from Congress.

Thoughts?

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ShelC
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Re: The Wall

Post by ShelC » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:31 am

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In2ition
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Re: The Wall

Post by In2ition » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:35 am

I don't think that the Wall is a national emergency. If he was really serious about slowing down illegal immigration, he would cut off the jobs available for immigrants. Enforcing mandatory E-Verify would help.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: The Wall

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:20 am

In2ition wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:35 am
I don't think that the Wall is a national emergency. If he was really serious about slowing down illegal immigration, he would cut off the jobs available for immigrants. Enforcing mandatory E-Verify would help.
Do you think he should do that? Do you consider illegal immigration a big problem for the country right now?

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Re: The Wall

Post by LazarusLong » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:20 pm

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Sunday continued to push the Trump administration’s false claims that terrorists pour into the U.S. across the border with Mexico. But Fox News’ Chris Wallace wasn’t having it.

“Let’s talk about the wall,” Wallace said. “The president talks about terrorists potentially coming across the border.”
He then showed a clip of Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen stating Friday that “over 3,000 special interest aliens” trying to enter the U.S. from the southern border had been stopped by Border Patrol agents.

“But special interest aliens are just people who have come from countries that have ever produced a terrorist, they’re not terrorists themselves,” Wallace said. He also cited State Department reports that found “no credible evidence of any terrorist coming across the border from Mexico.”

Sanders responded, “We know that roughly nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists come into our country illegally, and we know that our most vulnerable point of entry is at our southern border.”

Chris Wallace interrupted Sanders.
“I studied up on this. Do you know where those 4,000 people come or where they’re captured? Airports.”

“Not always but certainly a large number,” Sanders said.

“The state department says there hasn’t been any terrorists found coming across the southern border from Mexico,” he added.
Sanders then said terrorists enter the U.S. “by air, it’s by land, it’s by sea” and that the southern border is the country’s “most vulnerable point of entry.”

“But they’re not coming across the southern border, Sarah,” Wallace persisted. “They’re coming and they’re being stopped at airports.”
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In2ition
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Re: The Wall

Post by In2ition » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:28 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:20 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:35 am
I don't think that the Wall is a national emergency. If he was really serious about slowing down illegal immigration, he would cut off the jobs available for immigrants. Enforcing mandatory E-Verify would help.
Do you think he should do that? Do you consider illegal immigration a big problem for the country right now?
I don't think it's as big of a deal as he's making it out to be. It is costing the country a lot of money, there needs to be a fix imo to a path to citizenship. It takes way too long for a lot of people. I certainly don't think paying people under the table and slave type wages is good or them or for the country. I also think that it fosters a criminal element that we don't want either. Probably a bigger problem is those coming into the country illegally by coyotes and then sold into slavery, and that happens all over, not just on the southern border.
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Re: The Wall

Post by Nodack » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:00 pm

I think 85% of this wall fight is political. I saw a quote from Trump where he basically says he really doesn’t care one way or the other about the wall but every time he mentions building a wall at a rally his supporters would go nuts. Now he uses the fight to shore up his support and promotes fear of illegal aliens to bolster his position that he really diesn’t care about.

I am getting pretty old and have seen this illegal alien topic brought up every election and used by Republicans and Democrats. Both sides have been pushing for more border security for many decades because they think it scores points.

I think Democrats are against the wall mostly because Trump wants it and promised Mexico would pay for it.

It all comes down to winning and losing, which is sad. Sad from both sides.

The same goes for health care. We all want better cheaper health care for all but we can’t fix it because we can’t work together. It always has to be one side against the other no matter what.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: The Wall

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:18 am

Trump's big speech Tuesday night (and the Dem response to it) seemed like a big nothing-burger. No real news was broken; just hot air about it. I don't think it moved public opinion much either direction. I'm glad Trump didn't make the dictatorial move of declaring a national emergency. I think he's going to have to give up on his shutdown and not get anything for it. Nobody wants the government to stay shut down, and it has nothing to do with his dumb wall. No money for the wall, period, not one cent.

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In2ition
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Re: The Wall

Post by In2ition » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:43 pm

What is everyone's experience at the southern border? Does anyone have relatives with land down there or friends that can give a first hand account of what's really happening?
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Nodack
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Re: The Wall

Post by Nodack » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:42 pm

I have done a few wedding gigs there close to the border recently but didn’t have any border conversations with anybody.

Trump today is now saying when he said Mexico would pay for the wall he didn’t mean Mexico would write him a check, whatever that means. I guess that means when he said Mexico would pay for the wall he didn’t mean Mexico would actually pay for the wall. It must have been a figure of speech that really means we will pay for the wall.

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Re: The Wall

Post by Indy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:54 pm

He is now saying the trade deal will pay for it. And I guess that means tariffs with mexico. which get passed on to US consumers. So he means you will pay for it.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: The Wall

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:09 am

This whole thing is going so badly for him. This is the guy renouned for his ability to cut great "deals"? In the end he'll get nothing, because he has offered nothing. So he'll have to make a dictatorial "national emergency" power grab. That's not a deal. It's going to go to court and be thrown out. It takes years to do a project like this, so no wall will ever be built. An embarrassment. His signature campaign promise, not kept. And it was a bad idea in the first place.

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Re: The Wall

Post by Superbone » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:01 pm

And apparently, the only reason it was a campaign promise was that it was easy for him to remember. I'm not even sure he really cares about building a wall.
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ShelC
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Re: The Wall

Post by ShelC » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:01 pm

He doesn't. It's just an easy issue to divide people on. He needs to fight with the other side and make it "us vs them" to keep support. His administration is in shambles and barely functioning. If he wasn't fighting over the wall, he'd have nothing else to do or speak about besides the Russia investigation.

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Re: The Wall

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:00 am

The only reason he wants this wall is because he and his Russian puppet masters will graft the s*** out of it.
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Superbone
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Re: The Wall

Post by Superbone » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:51 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:00 am
The only reason he wants this wall is because he and his Russian puppet masters will graft the s*** out of it.
Do you mean grift?
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Re: The Wall

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:18 am

graft
[graft, grahft]
noun
the acquisition of money, gain, or advantage by dishonest, unfair, or illegal means, especially through the abuse of one's position or influence in politics, business, etc.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/graft
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Re: The Wall

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:32 am

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Re: The Wall

Post by Cap » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:10 am

Unfortunately, all the speeches and messages mean nothing. Republicans say the whole mess is the Democrats’ fault because they refuse to fund the wall. Committed centrists say both sides are to blame for being unwilling to compromise. Anyone who holds Trump and the GOP responsible for it is already solidly in the Democratic camp.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: The Wall

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:10 am

I chuckled at the Trump quote he gave in his interview with Jeanine Pirro on Fox where he said he hasn't left the White House for 2 months. He has, such as going to Dallas and even Iraq. What many have pointed out is that he hasn't gone *golfing* in almost 2 months. That's what he was probably really thinking of. (This guy also hated on Obama for going golfing.)

I get so annoyed by the "both sides"-ing of this issue. If I kidnap your two kids and you ask for them back, it isn't a "compromise" for me to give just one of them back. If I am your boss and I offer to drop your salary to $0, and you want it to stay at its current rate, it isn't a "compromise" for us to agree to drop your salary to half. In both cases I'm negotiating through threats, attack, and theft. The compromise is to leave things as they are, or, for you to offer something of great value in return for taking half my salary / my kid / etc.

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