ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

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Xylus
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ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by Xylus » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:04 am

This is one of the more scathing pieces I've read on our FO situation and I think warrants its own thread.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2608 ... ont-office
Four years after naming McDonough general manager, Sarver acquired some live goats from a Diana Taurasi event at Talking Stick Resort Arena and planted them upstairs in McDonough's office. The stunt was both a practical joke and an inspirational message -- the Suns should find a GOAT of their own, one who dominates like Taurasi. The goats, unaware of their metaphorical connotation, proceeded to defecate all over McDonough's office.

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In2ition
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by In2ition » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:21 am

Xylus wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:04 am
This is one of the more scathing pieces I've read on our FO situation and I think warrants its own thread.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2608 ... ont-office
Four years after naming McDonough general manager, Sarver acquired some live goats from a Diana Taurasi event at Talking Stick Resort Arena and planted them upstairs in McDonough's office. The stunt was both a practical joke and an inspirational message -- the Suns should find a GOAT of their own, one who dominates like Taurasi. The goats, unaware of their metaphorical connotation, proceeded to defecate all over McDonough's office.
Idk whether to laugh or cry. What did Sarver think was going to happen?
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

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jonh
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by jonh » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:58 am

Holy cow. What a damning article.
“I’m done with not making the playoffs. I’m serious. This is probably the last year I’m ever not making the playoffs.” Devin Booker-- April, 2017

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jonh
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by jonh » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:05 am

What sort of response are you expecting from the front office? We should play "response Bingo"!

"I certainly have not been a perfect owner, but I want to win."
"I have improved during my time as an owner."
"These sources don't know what its like in the Suns organization."
"I have been tremendously successful as an owner."
"I do appreciate an occasional goat now and then."
"We have acquired a valuable collection of young talent, which is exciting for the future."

It would be the first Suns game I've really enjoyed in years.
“I’m done with not making the playoffs. I’m serious. This is probably the last year I’m ever not making the playoffs.” Devin Booker-- April, 2017

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jonh
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by jonh » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:33 am

Image

Edit: This may not show up the way I want it, and Im not sure how to fix it.
Last edited by jonh on Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
“I’m done with not making the playoffs. I’m serious. This is probably the last year I’m ever not making the playoffs.” Devin Booker-- April, 2017

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The Bobster
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by The Bobster » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:33 am

This article just affirms some of the greatest fears expressed by those of us here.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:47 am

I'm glad there is some national media attention to how pathetic our ownership and management is. We need that shaming to have any hope for change. I want the league to pressure Saver to hire a competent, experienced GM and to empower that GM to make his own decisions without fear of meddling. I don't think Saver will decide to do that on his own, but if there's enough external pressure and anger directed specifically at him, maybe he can be goaded into doing the right thing.

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carey
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by carey » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:07 am

jonh wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:58 am
Holy cow. What a damning article.
Or, holy goat as it were.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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carey
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by carey » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:10 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:47 am
I'm glad there is some national media attention to how pathetic our ownership and management is. We need that shaming to have any hope for change. I want the league to pressure Saver to hire a competent, experienced GM and to empower that GM to make his own decisions without fear of meddling. I don't think Saver will decide to do that on his own, but if there's enough external pressure and anger directed specifically at him, maybe he can be goaded into doing the right thing.
Not going to happen. Sarver is no pushover and any attempt at the league to force decisions on a control freak is going to be met with furious resistance. Our only hope is that he sells the team at some point. Maybe he gets tired of the losing and seeing his name int he media and cashes out.

I don't understand why the board just doesn't vote him out as managing partner. Isn't that a thing that can happen? Or does he personally own too much of the team?
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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The Bobster
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by The Bobster » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:19 am

carey wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:10 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:47 am
I'm glad there is some national media attention to how pathetic our ownership and management is. We need that shaming to have any hope for change. I want the league to pressure Saver to hire a competent, experienced GM and to empower that GM to make his own decisions without fear of meddling. I don't think Saver will decide to do that on his own, but if there's enough external pressure and anger directed specifically at him, maybe he can be goaded into doing the right thing.
Not going to happen. Sarver is no pushover and any attempt at the league to force decisions on a control freak is going to be met with furious resistance. Our only hope is that he sells the team at some point. Maybe he gets tired of the losing and seeing his name int he media and cashes out.

I don't understand why the board just doesn't vote him out as managing partner. Isn't that a thing that can happen? Or does he personally own too much of the team?
If he's making them money, why should they complain? He's the only one taking any heat.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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carey
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by carey » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:26 am

The Bobster wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:19 am


If he's making them money, why should they complain? He's the only one taking any heat.
Is he making them money? The real value of owning a sports team is how the value of the franchise rises and what you get when you sell it. I think what they make yearly is not significant by their standards.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:33 am

The Bobster wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:19 am
If he's making them money, why should they complain? He's the only one taking any heat.
I think there's precedent for teams being concerned when another team is mismanaged. There is some sense that badly run teams are bad for the NBA as a whole. Recent examples include the Pelicans several years back (Stern and the NBA helped manage their ownership transition and their Chris Paul trade) and the 76ers at the end of the Hinkie run (NBA helped get Jerry and Bryan Colangelo in place to manage basketball operations).

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The Bobster
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by The Bobster » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:38 am

carey wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:26 am
The Bobster wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:19 am


If he's making them money, why should they complain? He's the only one taking any heat.
Is he making them money? The real value of owning a sports team is how the value of the franchise rises and what you get when you sell it. I think what they make yearly is not significant by their standards.
According to Forbes.com they earned $47 million before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization were figured.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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ShelC
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by ShelC » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:39 am

carey wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:10 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:47 am
I'm glad there is some national media attention to how pathetic our ownership and management is. We need that shaming to have any hope for change. I want the league to pressure Saver to hire a competent, experienced GM and to empower that GM to make his own decisions without fear of meddling. I don't think Saver will decide to do that on his own, but if there's enough external pressure and anger directed specifically at him, maybe he can be goaded into doing the right thing.
Not going to happen. Sarver is no pushover and any attempt at the league to force decisions on a control freak is going to be met with furious resistance. Our only hope is that he sells the team at some point. Maybe he gets tired of the losing and seeing his name int he media and cashes out.

I don't understand why the board just doesn't vote him out as managing partner. Isn't that a thing that can happen? Or does he personally own too much of the team?
Don't be so sure. The league was able to get Dolan to hire Donnie (and others from the outside) to fix the org on a basketball and business level. If the league stepped in with Dolan, it can step in with Sarver.

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The Bobster
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by The Bobster » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:51 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:33 am
The Bobster wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:19 am
If he's making them money, why should they complain? He's the only one taking any heat.
I think there's precedent for teams being concerned when another team is mismanaged. There is some sense that badly run teams are bad for the NBA as a whole. Recent examples include the Pelicans several years back (Stern and the NBA helped manage their ownership transition and their Chris Paul trade) and the 76ers at the end of the Hinkie run (NBA helped get Jerry and Bryan Colangelo in place to manage basketball operations).

Generally they don't however. In New Orleans they purchased the Hornets because George Shinn was having financial problems after all his legal issues in Charlotte and the relocation of the team. In Philadelphia, the ownership is still the same despite the change from Hinkie.

The league rarely involves themselves in an owner's operation of their team. They did with Ted Stepien in the 1980's because there were questions about his finances and the instability of the team (esp. in their history of trading #1 picks for minimal returns). If they're willing to put up with 30 years of Donald Sterling I don't see them interfering simply because an owner isn't good at building a winner.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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AmareIsGod
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by AmareIsGod » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:16 pm

Then there was the time in January 2012 when Sarver dressed down future Hall of Famer Grant Hill in the locker room at halftime for allowing former Sun Vince Carter to go off for a quick 15 points. One of Hill's teammates recently stated that the team found Sarver's actions utterly repugnant. Former players and Suns coaches recount incidents of Sarver baiting opponents from his courtside seat, and even heckling Suns players or roaring to the bench to yank someone from the game.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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In2ition
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by In2ition » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:19 pm

AmareIsGod wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:16 pm
Then there was the time in January 2012 when Sarver dressed down future Hall of Famer Grant Hill in the locker room at halftime for allowing former Sun Vince Carter to go off for a quick 15 points. One of Hill's teammates recently stated that the team found Sarver's actions utterly repugnant. Former players and Suns coaches recount incidents of Sarver baiting opponents from his courtside seat, and even heckling Suns players or roaring to the bench to yank someone from the game.
Ugh <facepalm/>
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"

Possibilities at 32:
Isaiah Roby, Darius Bazely, Ty Jerome, Mfiondu Kabengele, Daniel Gafford, Dylan Windler, Chuma Okeke, Carson Edwards, Arturs Zagars

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Hermen
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by Hermen » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:35 pm

Robert Sarver wrote: If I look back, at times I've tried to use a formula I've used in business where I've hired younger folks and tried to mentor them.
That's all anyone needs to know, really. He thought he could mentor basketball executives (and players, apparently) at their jobs.

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The Bobster
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by The Bobster » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:37 pm

Guys with huge egos and that crave public attention (Sarver, Cuban, Dolan, the Maloof brothers, etc) can usually be counted on to do something stupid to embarrass the organization at some point.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: ESPN - Inside the Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:57 pm

Almost every story or anecdote I have ever read about Sarver involves him acting like an arrogant douchebag, flying off the handle, dressing down somebody inappropriately, bragging about something he should not brag about, interjecting his opinion in a situation where it isn't warranted, or just not reading the situation or audience properly. He's a total ass.

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