Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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JeremyG
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by JeremyG » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:17 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:37 am
The Bobster wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:13 am
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:40 am
Can get much better odds in FA acquiring known talent.
But it's usually much more expensive.
And they have to choose to play here. You can't discount that. And if you are trading for them, they have to be someone that the other team wants to get rid of, at least for what you are willing to give them. Draft picks are really the only time where you are in control of your own destiny, with a fixed cost.

For those that keep saying we should trade our #6 for a proven, good, NBA caliber PG or PF, why is the other team giving up this person for a complete unknown in #6? And who is on the market for #6? We keep talking about getting Spencer or Ball, but no report from those teams seem to indicate they would prefer #6 to those guys.
Gambo says the Lakers have fallen in love with Garland at #4 and would love to trade Ball for the #6 pick but the Suns refuse.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Split T » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:33 pm

Lakers aren’t keeping #4 if they want AD..Though Garland would seem to be a nice fit as a pg next to Lebron

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Superbone » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:39 pm

I don’t get why we wouldn’t trade the no 6 for Ball or Dinwiddie (according to Gambo.)
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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O_Gardino
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by O_Gardino » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:45 pm

I wouldn't give up anything more than a matching salary for Ball.
SELL THE TEAM
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:18 pm

O_Gardino wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:45 pm
I wouldn't give up anything more than a matching salary for Ball.
I think you are ... low-Balling him.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Split T » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:24 pm

Superbone wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:39 pm
I don’t get why we wouldn’t trade the no 6 for Ball or Dinwiddie (according to Gambo.)
Dinwiddie I don’t get, but ball isn’t a very good basketball player right now. He can’t shoot and he’s kinda expensive(would essentially take all our cap space).

I’d swap Jackson for Ball...maybe I’d throw in the Milwaukee pick, but that’s the most I’d do.

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Indy » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:03 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:35 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:37 am
The Bobster wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:13 am
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:40 am
Can get much better odds in FA acquiring known talent.
But it's usually much more expensive.
And they have to choose to play here. You can't discount that. And if you are trading for them, they have to be someone that the other team wants to get rid of, at least for what you are willing to give them. Draft picks are really the only time where you are in control of your own destiny, with a fixed cost.

For those that keep saying we should trade our #6 for a proven, good, NBA caliber PG or PF, why is the other team giving up this person for a complete unknown in #6? And who is on the market for #6? We keep talking about getting Spencer or Ball, but no report from those teams seem to indicate they would prefer #6 to those guys.
My mindset is that I'm only keeping that pick and drafting at that position if I think I can grab a player with star potential. If I'm looking at drafting a player that caps out as a role player, I'd prefer to trade that pick for a guaranteed role player. The risk is not worth the benefit in that case.

I'm down to gamble on a player who could be a star, not a role player. If I knew Alex Len would cap out at what he was, I'd trade that pick every time. That's what I'm seeing at #6 here. I'd prefer to trade it to acquire a role player rather than hope whoever we draft turns out to be a reliable role player after several years.


For example, I'd be open to exploring a trade with Cleveland

Suns get: Larry Nance JR on his upcoming 4 year/ 44M extension, JR Smith (waive him, therefore only being accountable for 3.8M)
Cavs get: #6 pick, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
The cavs want our castaways and #6 for Larry Nance? He is on a great contract (decreasing every year) and is arguably their best player (absolutely their best while Love misses his typical quarter of the season). There is no way they do that deal. People are not going to trade their best or 2nd best player on a good contract for a #6 pick in this draft (or any draft really).

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Indy » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:04 pm

Split T wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:24 pm
Superbone wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:39 pm
I don’t get why we wouldn’t trade the no 6 for Ball or Dinwiddie (according to Gambo.)
Dinwiddie I don’t get, but ball isn’t a very good basketball player right now. He can’t shoot and he’s kinda expensive(would essentially take all our cap space).

I’d swap Jackson for Ball...maybe I’d throw in the Milwaukee pick, but that’s the most I’d do.
Yeah if there is any truth whatsoever to that #6 and Josh or TJ for Dinwiddie, you do it.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by JeremyG » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:45 pm

Split T wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:24 pm
Superbone wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:39 pm
I don’t get why we wouldn’t trade the no 6 for Ball or Dinwiddie (according to Gambo.)
Dinwiddie I don’t get, but ball isn’t a very good basketball player right now. He can’t shoot and he’s kinda expensive(would essentially take all our cap space).
His salary is only $3.9 million more than the #6 pick, so it wouldn’t hurt our cap space very much. We could still have/clear enough cap space for a PF.

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by INFORMER » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:31 pm

Tyler Johnson can't be traded until his player option year is exercised. He probably won't opt in until after the draft.
Free agent targets: Cheick Diallo, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Joakim Noah, Theo Pinson

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carey
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by carey » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:14 pm

INFORMER wrote:Tyler Johnson can't be traded until his player option year is exercised. He probably won't opt in until after the draft.
Why would he wait? Is it so the team can't trade him in a draft day deal? Why would he want or not want that?
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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by specialsauce » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:48 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:03 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:35 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:37 am
The Bobster wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:13 am
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:40 am
Can get much better odds in FA acquiring known talent.
But it's usually much more expensive.
And they have to choose to play here. You can't discount that. And if you are trading for them, they have to be someone that the other team wants to get rid of, at least for what you are willing to give them. Draft picks are really the only time where you are in control of your own destiny, with a fixed cost.

For those that keep saying we should trade our #6 for a proven, good, NBA caliber PG or PF, why is the other team giving up this person for a complete unknown in #6? And who is on the market for #6? We keep talking about getting Spencer or Ball, but no report from those teams seem to indicate they would prefer #6 to those guys.
My mindset is that I'm only keeping that pick and drafting at that position if I think I can grab a player with star potential. If I'm looking at drafting a player that caps out as a role player, I'd prefer to trade that pick for a guaranteed role player. The risk is not worth the benefit in that case.

I'm down to gamble on a player who could be a star, not a role player. If I knew Alex Len would cap out at what he was, I'd trade that pick every time. That's what I'm seeing at #6 here. I'd prefer to trade it to acquire a role player rather than hope whoever we draft turns out to be a reliable role player after several years.


For example, I'd be open to exploring a trade with Cleveland

Suns get: Larry Nance JR on his upcoming 4 year/ 44M extension, JR Smith (waive him, therefore only being accountable for 3.8M)
Cavs get: #6 pick, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
The cavs want our castaways and #6 for Larry Nance? He is on a great contract (decreasing every year) and is arguably their best player (absolutely their best while Love misses his typical quarter of the season). There is no way they do that deal. People are not going to trade their best or 2nd best player on a good contract for a #6 pick in this draft (or any draft really).
You're really overhyping Larry Nance. He's a role player. He averaged less than 30 mpg and less than 10 ppg

Cavs are nowhere close to competing. They need to find their franchise cornerstones. Right now all they have is Colin Sexton and an aging Kevin Love.

JeremyG
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by JeremyG » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:17 pm

carey wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:14 pm
INFORMER wrote:Tyler Johnson can't be traded until his player option year is exercised. He probably won't opt in until after the draft.
Why would he wait? Is it so the team can't trade him in a draft day deal? Why would he want or not want that?
We could always agree to a trade with a team before the draft, and just not finalize it until later.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Split T » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:03 pm

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:45 pm
Split T wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:24 pm
Superbone wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:39 pm
I don’t get why we wouldn’t trade the no 6 for Ball or Dinwiddie (according to Gambo.)
Dinwiddie I don’t get, but ball isn’t a very good basketball player right now. He can’t shoot and he’s kinda expensive(would essentially take all our cap space).
His salary is only $3.9 million more than the #6 pick, so it wouldn’t hurt our cap space very much. We could still have/clear enough cap space for a PF.
That’s almost 40% of our cap space. Which puts us below the MLE, which means we’d operate as an over the cap team so we could use the MLE...which means we can’t use cap space. Then Ball is 11 million the next year. He’s still a project, I’d rather keep our cap space and draft a cheaper project that is under contract for 4 years and can actually shoot.

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England Sun
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by England Sun » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:05 am

As much as I love Ball and his ability to pass and defend, we have been crying out for players who can shoot the ball when needed for the past few seasons.
I don't think Ball's addition makes us an overall better team.
Yes he can facilitate others, but that he is overall subtraction by addition.
Yes, he may be able to feed Ayton in the post better than anyone on the roster so far, but defenders can leave him and still focus on Booker in the back court, in fact, defenders sag so far off Ball that you end up playing 4 on 5 most of the time!!
On defense, yes, he is better than what we have at the one, but, for me, that's his overall benefit.
So, for me, until he improves his shot, we shouldn't spend a 6th pick or anything else of much value when we can get someone else who can pass and shoot at the one.
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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Superbone » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:20 am

Good points, ES.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by INFORMER » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:00 am

carey wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:14 pm
INFORMER wrote:Tyler Johnson can't be traded until his player option year is exercised. He probably won't opt in until after the draft.
Why would he wait? Is it so the team can't trade him in a draft day deal? Why would he want or not want that?
I don't know.

I think he has until that 29th to opt in. That's 9 days after the draft. So he could take his sweet time.
Free agent targets: Cheick Diallo, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Joakim Noah, Theo Pinson

JeremyG
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by JeremyG » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:22 pm

England Sun wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:05 am
As much as I love Ball and his ability to pass and defend, we have been crying out for players who can shoot the ball when needed for the past few seasons.
I don't think Ball's addition makes us an overall better team.
Yes he can facilitate others, but that he is overall subtraction by addition.
Yes, he may be able to feed Ayton in the post better than anyone on the roster so far, but defenders can leave him and still focus on Booker in the back court, in fact, defenders sag so far off Ball that you end up playing 4 on 5 most of the time!!
On defense, yes, he is better than what we have at the one, but, for me, that's his overall benefit.
So, for me, until he improves his shot, we shouldn't spend a 6th pick or anything else of much value when we can get someone else who can pass and shoot at the one.
Who? Who’s available that’s as good of a passer and a great shooter?

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Split T » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:27 pm

JeremyG wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:22 pm
England Sun wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:05 am
As much as I love Ball and his ability to pass and defend, we have been crying out for players who can shoot the ball when needed for the past few seasons.
I don't think Ball's addition makes us an overall better team.
Yes he can facilitate others, but that he is overall subtraction by addition.
Yes, he may be able to feed Ayton in the post better than anyone on the roster so far, but defenders can leave him and still focus on Booker in the back court, in fact, defenders sag so far off Ball that you end up playing 4 on 5 most of the time!!
On defense, yes, he is better than what we have at the one, but, for me, that's his overall benefit.
So, for me, until he improves his shot, we shouldn't spend a 6th pick or anything else of much value when we can get someone else who can pass and shoot at the one.
Who? Who’s available that’s as good of a passer and a great shooter?
Why do they have to be as good of a passer. Literally almost anyone is a better shooter. I would happily take a slightly lesser passer who can actually shoot.

JeremyG
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by JeremyG » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:19 pm

Split T wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:27 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:22 pm
England Sun wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:05 am
As much as I love Ball and his ability to pass and defend, we have been crying out for players who can shoot the ball when needed for the past few seasons.
I don't think Ball's addition makes us an overall better team.
Yes he can facilitate others, but that he is overall subtraction by addition.
Yes, he may be able to feed Ayton in the post better than anyone on the roster so far, but defenders can leave him and still focus on Booker in the back court, in fact, defenders sag so far off Ball that you end up playing 4 on 5 most of the time!!
On defense, yes, he is better than what we have at the one, but, for me, that's his overall benefit.
So, for me, until he improves his shot, we shouldn't spend a 6th pick or anything else of much value when we can get someone else who can pass and shoot at the one.
Who? Who’s available that’s as good of a passer and a great shooter?
Why do they have to be as good of a passer. Literally almost anyone is a better shooter. I would happily take a slightly lesser passer who can actually shoot.
Well I guess it’s a moot point now since we refused to give up #6. But I value passing and defense way more than shooting. But fine, who’s a slightly lesser passer who can shoot that’s available?

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