Around the League: The Off-season

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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3rdside
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by 3rdside » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:22 am

TJ (17) Bender (17, 6 and 3) and chriss (8, 11 and 4) doing well the last couple nights, 0.5 seconds or less sounding distinctly like a gimmick, 18% from 3 vs the kings and Jarrett culver putting up 17, 5 and 3 ... I’ve gone from +40 wins on the seasons to dumpster fire over night.

I should be banned from making preseason predictions.


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O_Gardino
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by O_Gardino » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:50 am

I think Culver will be good, but I don't mind the trade, because I like Saric for this team.

I just hope we can Turn Bridges / Oubre / Cam into 3 useful players for the team through development and a trade or 2.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

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gosuns
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by gosuns » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:32 pm

ShelC wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 pm
Nah, he's got much more handle and off the dribble breakdown ability. He's like a 6-7 270lb ISO guard.
How about Larry Johnson?

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:57 pm

3rdside wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:22 am
TJ (17) Bender (17, 6 and 3) and chriss (8, 11 and 4) doing well the last couple nights, 0.5 seconds or less sounding distinctly like a gimmick, 18% from 3 vs the kings and Jarrett culver putting up 17, 5 and 3 ... I’ve gone from +40 wins on the seasons to dumpster fire over night.
Rooting hard for Bender to do well this year and stick in the league. I think he can and will. I think we should not have let him go.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Split T » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:10 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:57 pm
3rdside wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:22 am
TJ (17) Bender (17, 6 and 3) and chriss (8, 11 and 4) doing well the last couple nights, 0.5 seconds or less sounding distinctly like a gimmick, 18% from 3 vs the kings and Jarrett culver putting up 17, 5 and 3 ... I’ve gone from +40 wins on the seasons to dumpster fire over night.
Rooting hard for Bender to do well this year and stick in the league. I think he can and will. I think we should not have let him go.
Did you think we should have picked up his option? Or bring him back at the minimum? I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t want to come back.

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3rdside
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by 3rdside » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:59 pm

O_Gardino wrote:I think Culver will be good, but I don't mind the trade, because I like Saric for this team.

I just hope we can Turn Bridges / Oubre / Cam into 3 useful players for the team through development and a trade or 2.
Aaaand breath easy again.

I liked the Johnson trade (still do after last last night!); something about culver I didn’t like.


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3rdside
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by 3rdside » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:16 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
3rdside wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:22 am
TJ (17) Bender (17, 6 and 3) and chriss (8, 11 and 4) doing well the last couple nights, 0.5 seconds or less sounding distinctly like a gimmick, 18% from 3 vs the kings and Jarrett culver putting up 17, 5 and 3 ... I’ve gone from +40 wins on the seasons to dumpster fire over night.
Rooting hard for Bender to do well this year and stick in the league. I think he can and will. I think we should not have let him go.
I’ve given plenty of leeway to James Jones based mainly on the fact that he’s not Ryan McDonough.

I didn’t like Bender when we drafted him, and i didn’t like him when we let him go, but if he (or chriss or Jackson) turns out good / really good that leeway obviously takes a big hit.

That aside, Bender seems like a good kid so all the best to him.


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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Aztec Sunsfan » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:09 am

Sometimes situations means the world, and a change of scenery is a real thing, so I rarely regrets whats happens to our players once they leave, I actually like when they do better, but never thinks that we lost THAT player. We suck developing players, and this dates way back the current regime. Marion, Amare Booker were special players with inner motivation to excel, so they basically flourish on their own, but people like Nash and Barbosa found their best performance on another environment. Joe J is another case on how we “develop”, of course you could argue that he was already showing signs here, but it was after two tumultuous years that almost watching him fail. Bender always strikes me as another Joe, a quiet guy relying on his coaches to tell him what to do, and an confidence dependent on the environment, so we were the worst case escenario for this kid to be in.

I was rooting real hard for us to keep him one more year and see what Monty and the new staff could do, but I won’t regret it if he explodes somewhere else, that’s another Bender, not the Bender we could get here. Different ingredients, different results, even if the main ingredient remains the same.

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rhylek
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by rhylek » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:17 pm

I agree with you but disagree on Joe J. He developped as a stud here (he was nowhere that good in Boston). He just wanted out to be the #1 on his team.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:24 pm

rhylek wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:17 pm
I agree with you but disagree on Joe J. He developped as a stud here (he was nowhere that good in Boston). He just wanted out to be the #1 on his team.
I dunno if he even insisted on being #1. He just wanted a fair contract. We tried to low-ball him. He made a counter, and we wouldn't up our offer to match. So we (meaning new cheapass owner Bob Saver) lost him over $5m/year. Dumb.

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rhylek
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by rhylek » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:45 pm

According to sources close to the situation, Johnson is also unhappy with what he perceives as his standing as a "fourth wheel" behind the All-Star trio of Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Marion. Besides the opportunity to be the star man on its youthful roster, Atlanta is offering as much as the rules allow without holding Johnson's Larry Bird rights -- a frontloaded five-year deal worth an estimated $70 million, with an up-front payment as high as $20 million in Year 1.
https://www.espn.com/nba/columns/story? ... id=2120105

Of course, lowballing him didn't help...

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Indy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:54 pm

rhylek wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:45 pm
According to sources close to the situation, Johnson is also unhappy with what he perceives as his standing as a "fourth wheel" behind the All-Star trio of Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Marion. Besides the opportunity to be the star man on its youthful roster, Atlanta is offering as much as the rules allow without holding Johnson's Larry Bird rights -- a frontloaded five-year deal worth an estimated $70 million, with an up-front payment as high as $20 million in Year 1.
https://www.espn.com/nba/columns/story? ... id=2120105

Of course, lowballing him didn't help...
I am willing to bet the "sources" there were coming from the Suns as a way to save face when we wouldn't match.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:26 pm

It wouldn't be a Suns offseason if we didn't rehash the Joe Johnson saga. :-)

I take your point, rhylek, but not wanting to be the "fourth wheel" is different than insisting on being #1. I'm sure he wanted more money and a bigger role, but that doesn't mean he was a prima donna who demanded superstar treatment. The contract he asked for was more than fair.

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ShelC
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by ShelC » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:28 pm

It wouldn't be a Suns offseason if we didn't rehash the Joe Johnson saga. :-)

:lol:

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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Drewsprocket » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:39 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:28 pm
It wouldn't be a Suns offseason if we didn't rehash the Joe Johnson saga. :-)

:lol:
😭 what could have been...

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3rdside
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by 3rdside » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:03 am

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:Sometimes situations means the world, and a change of scenery is a real thing, so I rarely regrets whats happens to our players once they leave, I actually like when they do better, but never thinks that we lost THAT player. We suck developing players, and this dates way back the current regime. Marion, Amare Booker were special players with inner motivation to excel, so they basically flourish on their own, but people like Nash and Barbosa found their best performance on another environment. Joe J is another case on how we “develop”, of course you could argue that he was already showing signs here, but it was after two tumultuous years that almost watching him fail. Bender always strikes me as another Joe, a quiet guy relying on his coaches to tell him what to do, and an confidence dependent on the environment, so we were the worst case escenario for this kid to be in.

I was rooting real hard for us to keep him one more year and see what Monty and the new staff could do, but I won’t regret it if he explodes somewhere else, that’s another Bender, not the Bender we could get here. Different ingredients, different results, even if the main ingredient remains the same.
I accept sometimes you just can’t see talent immediately - kawhi Leonard out of college for example - and I also accept it may take longer to become apparent ... but as identifying it is about the most important thing a club can do, letting it go for nothing after a few years of working with it is just about the most unforgivable thing.

Anyway, it’s early days and there’s also the issue of roster construction; “does a player fit”, which Bender’s quieter demeanour possibly didn’t.

That last point is a sore one for me because I’ve been overlooked before for not being vocal enough, like it’s some fault of mine or I’m not talented enough (where the louder, less talented guy gets the spot).

Frustrating, and a potential serious flaw of management.


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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:37 am

Zach Lowe ranks all 30 teams in terms of how fun they are to watch on League Pass. (The Suns are #24. Lowe shows his pro-Knicks bias a bit here.)

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/278 ... kings-pt-1

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Superbone » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:40 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:37 am
Zach Lowe ranks all 30 teams in terms of how fun they are to watch on League Pass. (The Suns are #24. Lowe shows his pro-Knicks bias a bit here.)

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/278 ... kings-pt-1
Pelicans #1?
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

da_suns_fan
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by da_suns_fan » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:22 am

rhylek wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:17 pm
I agree with you but disagree on Joe J. He developped as a stud here (he was nowhere that good in Boston). He just wanted out to be the #1 on his team.
Never actually said by Joe or his agent. Only thing he ever did say was:
In town for Steve Nash's charity game at Air Canada Centre, Johnson revealed that he directly informed Phoenix managing partner Robert Sarver earlier this week that he would prefer to continue his career as a Hawk.

"We had a discussion," Johnson said in his first extended interview about his future since free agency began July 1.

"I did tell them that."

Asked why he wants to leave the Suns after a breakthrough season, for himself and the team, Johnson said: "It's a lot of things. How things were handled [with Johnson's contract] last summer, how things have been handled this summer. There's been some things going on that aren't great."
.....................

"I would come back and work as hard as I ever have," Johnson said. "If they match, all this stuff is behind me from that minute on. I hope everybody [in Phoenix] puts everything behind them, too."
https://www.espn.com/nba/columns/story? ... id=2120105

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Superbone » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:15 pm

Let it go!
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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