Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

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carey
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Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by carey » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:09 pm

Nationally televised games this week

Monday: Utah @ Milwaukee 8:00 PM EST NBATv, OKC @ Golden State 10:30 PM EST NBATv
Tuesday: L.A. Clippers @ Dallas 8:30 PM EST NBATv
Wednesday: Brooklyn @ Boston 7:00 PM EST ESPN, L.A. Lakers @ NOLA 9:30 PM EST ESPN
Thursday: None
Friday: NOLA @ OKC 8:00 PM EST NBATv, Washington @ L.A. Lakers 10:30 PM EST ESPN
Saturday: Indiana @ Philly 7:00 PM EST NBATv
Sunday: None.

NBA News

Josh Hart's social media woops? - https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/281 ... ve-remarks

Red-hot Luka Doncic keeping focus on playoff berth - https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/281 ... yoff-berth

LaMelo Ball lights up NBL with breakout game (Is he legitimately good?) - https://www.espn.com/nbl/story/_/id/281 ... akout-game

The NBA’s schedule change experiment sounds great. How will it work? - https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/11/24 ... management

Stephen Curry, Will Arnett NBA Comedy Series in Development at Fox - https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/stephe ... 203413211/

NBA Rookie Power Rankings: Miami Heat getting huge production out of their young duo (Cam Johnson alert!) - https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba- ... young-duo/
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:21 pm

NBA Rookie Power Rankings: Miami Heat getting huge production out of their young duo (Cam Johnson alert!) - https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba- ... young-duo/
CBS lists Cam as the 9th best rookie of the season so far. Is it time to look back at the trade that brought him here? We traded the 6th pick, who ended up being Culver, for Saric and the 11th pick used to select Cam. Considering Culver's rough start to the season, one could argue that we did well in the trade. We also could have taken Coby White at #6, and he started strong but has fallen off a bit.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Split T » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:05 pm

The real determining factor will be a few years from now. When we made the trade, we did it with the understanding that we were giving up future value for two players who can play now. It would be pretty unfortunate if Culver/White were more effective players this year than Cam. Especially if we don’t retain Saric. How their careers play out over the next 5 years will help us see whether the trade was the right call or not.

Also, Coby White had 2 good games to start, then had a rough stretch, but he’s been playing well as of late.

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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by O_Gardino » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:40 pm

I think many if not most of us have been very positive about the trade from the day it was made. We got a starter and a pick that really wasn't any worse.

Judging the draft choice that Jones made afterwards will have to wait.
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Shabazz
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Shabazz » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:51 pm

O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:40 pm
I think many if not most of us have been very positive about the trade from the day it was made. We got a starter and a pick that really wasn't any worse.

Judging the draft choice that Jones made afterwards will have to wait.
Exactly. I don't judge Cam against Culver and White, rather against guys like Herro, Washington, NAW and Clarke.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Split T » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:03 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:51 pm
O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:40 pm
I think many if not most of us have been very positive about the trade from the day it was made. We got a starter and a pick that really wasn't any worse.

Judging the draft choice that Jones made afterwards will have to wait.
Exactly. I don't judge Cam against Culver and White, rather against guys like Herro, Washington, NAW and Clarke.
That’s fine for judging the draft pick, but if you’re trying to evaluate the trade as a whole...culver/white are what we gave up.

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The Bobster
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by The Bobster » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:14 am

How does Joel Embiid play 32 minutes, take 11 shots and go scoreless??
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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Indy » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:36 am

Split T wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:03 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:51 pm
O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:40 pm
I think many if not most of us have been very positive about the trade from the day it was made. We got a starter and a pick that really wasn't any worse.

Judging the draft choice that Jones made afterwards will have to wait.
Exactly. I don't judge Cam against Culver and White, rather against guys like Herro, Washington, NAW and Clarke.
That’s fine for judging the draft pick, but if you’re trying to evaluate the trade as a whole...culver/white are what we gave up.
Sure, but we gave up Culver/White for 1 year of Dario and Cam, when it could have been 1 year of Dario plus one of those guys.

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Indy » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:37 am

The Bobster wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:14 am
How does Joel Embiid play 32 minutes, take 11 shots and go scoreless??
He missed all of his shots.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Split T » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:02 am

Indy wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:36 am
Split T wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:03 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:51 pm
O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:40 pm
I think many if not most of us have been very positive about the trade from the day it was made. We got a starter and a pick that really wasn't any worse.

Judging the draft choice that Jones made afterwards will have to wait.
Exactly. I don't judge Cam against Culver and White, rather against guys like Herro, Washington, NAW and Clarke.
That’s fine for judging the draft pick, but if you’re trying to evaluate the trade as a whole...culver/white are what we gave up.
Sure, but we gave up Culver/White for 1 year of Dario and Cam, when it could have been 1 year of Dario plus one of those guys.
Right, so the question is are you trying to evaluate the draft pick or the trade? If you’re simply evaluating the pick, then yes Cam should be compared to what else was there(PJ, NAW, Clarke, Herro, etc.) If you’re evaluating the trade, then Culver/White also need to be considered. Yes, it’s not just Cam vs Culver as Saric was a big part of the trade, but that trade won’t look so hot next year if Saric is gone and Culver is already better than Cam.

Now it’s fair to say, I was in favor of the trade because I would have picked someone other than Cam. Because of that, you can still use those guys we didn’t pick as evaluation tools. If I was rating my board at the time, I would have wanted Clarke, NAW, PJ, in that order.

So we ended up with Saric/Cam but we could have ended up with Saric/Clarke, Saric/NAW, Saric/PJ, or Culver or White.

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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by ShelC » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:25 am

but that trade won’t look so hot next year if Saric is gone and Culver is already better than Cam.

I don't even think it's necessarily about that. Culver may be a "better" player than if he ends up an 18-5-5 guy or something. But if Cam ends up a 14ppg scorer, 5 boards, 2 assists on 40% from 3 spacing the floor for Book and Ayton, does it matter who the "better player" is?

We saw what happened when we just tried filling the roster with talent regardless of fit or position. TJ Warren's an explosive scorer who didn't really move the needle for us. Is he better than Kelly and Bridges and Cam? Are they a better fit for our roster vs TJ?

I think, for all intents and purposes, we did well with the trade. We don't have another 18-19yr old rookie needing 30+ minutes and the ball in his hands (Culver, White) to be effective. We filled a major shooting need in Cam and he's proven to be a contributor already in a bench role plus we have our starting PF this year with no long term commitment.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Split T » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:31 am

I’m not arguing against the trade. I like Cam, I think he’s a good fit here. Im just pointing out there is definitely a scenario where we look back and realize we maybe should have just taken Culver/White.

But, that’s for another day. Right now I’m happy with Saric/Cam and hope that we make the playoffs.

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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Superbone » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:50 am

Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:31 am
I’m not arguing against the trade. I like Cam, I think he’s a good fit here. Im just pointing out there is definitely a scenario where we look back and realize we maybe should have just taken Culver/White.

But, that’s for another day. Right now I’m happy with Saric/Cam and hope that we make the playoffs.
Yeah, and we also should have taken Gobert and Giannis.
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Split T » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:01 am

Superbone wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:50 am
Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:31 am
I’m not arguing against the trade. I like Cam, I think he’s a good fit here. Im just pointing out there is definitely a scenario where we look back and realize we maybe should have just taken Culver/White.

But, that’s for another day. Right now I’m happy with Saric/Cam and hope that we make the playoffs.
Yeah, and we also should have taken Gobert and Giannis.
Culver/White were realistic options. That was an actual decision our front office had to make. Giannis and Gobert were not under consideration for us, so your comparison doesn’t really fit.

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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by O_Gardino » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:42 am

Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:31 am
I’m not arguing against the trade. I like Cam, I think he’s a good fit here. Im just pointing out there is definitely a scenario where we look back and realize we maybe should have just taken Culver/White.

But, that’s for another day. Right now I’m happy with Saric/Cam and hope that we make the playoffs.
I see what you're saying, but I don't think I'll get there unless one of those guys is a real stud. I liked Culver before the draft, so it was hard to see us passing on him. But I liked Clarke almost as much, and I figured Saric + Clarke was a better investment than Culver. The fact that we picked Cam instead won't influence my view of the trade, even though Cam has a way to go before I like him as the pick.
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Split T » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:47 am

O_Gardino wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:42 am
Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:31 am
I’m not arguing against the trade. I like Cam, I think he’s a good fit here. Im just pointing out there is definitely a scenario where we look back and realize we maybe should have just taken Culver/White.

But, that’s for another day. Right now I’m happy with Saric/Cam and hope that we make the playoffs.
I see what you're saying, but I don't think I'll get there unless one of those guys is a real stud. I liked Culver before the draft, so it was hard to see us passing on him. But I liked Clarke almost as much, and I figured Saric + Clarke was a better investment than Culver. The fact that we picked Cam instead won't influence my view of the trade, even though Cam has a way to go before I like him as the pick.
Ya, in real time I liked the trade because I thought it meant we were picking Clarke and I was very high on him.

I do wonder how much we considered any other players at 11. Was Clarke under consideration or was Cam always the target. We’ll probably never know.

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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by ShelC » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:54 am

Something tells me Cam was always the target.

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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by O_Gardino » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:14 pm

Maybe they knew Bridges' shot would fail him. It's all just speculation.
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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Split T » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:21 pm

Has anyone ever asked Bridges about his shot? It’s kinda a tricky question to ask and not come away criticizing him, but I’d be curious what he says about why he changed his form.

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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/25-12/1

Post by Superbone » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:25 pm

Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:01 am
Superbone wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:50 am
Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:31 am
I’m not arguing against the trade. I like Cam, I think he’s a good fit here. Im just pointing out there is definitely a scenario where we look back and realize we maybe should have just taken Culver/White.

But, that’s for another day. Right now I’m happy with Saric/Cam and hope that we make the playoffs.
Yeah, and we also should have taken Gobert and Giannis.
Culver/White were realistic options. That was an actual decision our front office had to make. Giannis and Gobert were not under consideration for us, so your comparison doesn’t really fit.
Why weren't they?
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