The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

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O_Gardino
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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by O_Gardino » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:33 am

In one thread folks are talking about how Booker defers to his teammates too much and is trying too hard to play within the system, and in this thread folks are talking about how Booker would be jealous if there was another good player on the team. Are we watching the same guy?

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ShelC
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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by ShelC » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:54 am

I think it's just different situations. There's a team around Booker this year, not just one other guy who happens to be a superstar. If it were Luka and Book with last year's team and Igor/McD?

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Mori Chu
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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:29 pm

I'm not bothered by the way Booker is playing. I don't want him to be a chucker who values scoring 30+ over getting a win. I realize that there's a happy medium, and yes there have been some plays where I wanted him to be more aggressive. But I already know he can do that when he wants to. We aren't going to be a contender if he can't rely on his teammates in big games. So I approve of his strategy of giving more shots to others and playing more in the flow of the game rather than forcing it. We have to get the other guys used to their roles and confident, guys like Oubre, Bridges, Saric, Cam, etc. We know Book can go off for 30 anytime he wants.

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Superbone » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:48 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:29 pm
I'm not bothered by the way Booker is playing. I don't want him to be a chucker who values scoring 30+ over getting a win. I realize that there's a happy medium, and yes there have been some plays where I wanted him to be more aggressive. But I already know he can do that when he wants to. We aren't going to be a contender if he can't rely on his teammates in big games. So I approve of his strategy of giving more shots to others and playing more in the flow of the game rather than forcing it. We have to get the other guys used to their roles and confident, guys like Oubre, Bridges, Saric, Cam, etc. We know Book can go off for 30 anytime he wants.
And the occasional 70.
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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Superbone » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:16 pm

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:11 am

Kokoskov would probably still be our coach if we had drafted Doncic, right?

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by LazarusLong » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:53 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:11 am
Kokoskov would probably still be our coach if we had drafted Doncic, right?
Interesting observation.

I liked Coach K, but he seems a bit too low-key to be a head coach in the NBA.
Once upon a time, in what seems an epoch ago, the Phoenix Suns were a respectable NBA franchise ...

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by ShelC » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:15 am

Is there an actual story or consensus of what went down? I'm fuzzy on the timing but logic says McD hired Igor with the intention of taking Luka (prior to discussing Luka with Sarver) and when they started talking draft Sarver was just like "Nah, we're taking the local kid Ayton". If that's what happened, in its simplest terms, than Igor was doomed from the beginning and neither he nor McD (as much as it pains me to say) shouldn't take heat for last season.

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Indy
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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Indy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:20 am

Maybe this is all just made up in my head, but I thought it was Igor for Luka, James for Ayton, and Sarver undecided. Then James convinced Sarver to go with Ayton (first #1 pick ever, never had a franchise center, the city will love you for it instead of taking some young slow euro like Skita).

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by O_Gardino » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:54 am

Igor was a bad head coach.
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ShelC
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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by ShelC » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:02 am

Indy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:20 am
Maybe this is all just made up in my head, but I thought it was Igor for Luka, James for Ayton, and Sarver undecided. Then James convinced Sarver to go with Ayton (first #1 pick ever, never had a franchise center, the city will love you for it instead of taking some young slow euro like Skita).
That makes sense too but even so, why hire Igor in the first place if you're undecided on the pick or going to go with the other guy. Igor coached and knew Luka better than anyone in the NBA prob. It can also make Jones look pretty bad too.

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by O_Gardino » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:23 am

ShelC wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:02 am
Indy wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:20 am
Maybe this is all just made up in my head, but I thought it was Igor for Luka, James for Ayton, and Sarver undecided. Then James convinced Sarver to go with Ayton (first #1 pick ever, never had a franchise center, the city will love you for it instead of taking some young slow euro like Skita).
That makes sense too but even so, why hire Igor in the first place if you're undecided on the pick or going to go with the other guy. Igor coached and knew Luka better than anyone in the NBA prob. It can also make Jones look pretty bad too.
I always thought Sarver was the Ayton guy. But hiring Luka's coach and not drafting Luka is a very McD thing to do. We'll probably never really separate who did what in that mess of a rebuild.
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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Split T » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:26 am

I don’t think Igor was our first choice at head coach. We wanted Bud or Fizdale. And I remember an interview with Ryan McD before we knew we had the #1 pick and while he didn’t mention any names, it was clear he thought Ayton was head and shoulders above the rest. Then his reaction at the draft lottery tells me he was Ayton all the way. Igor was obviously team Luka...unclear where James and Sarcee were.

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by rhylek » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:27 am

I don't know if there's one GM who'd have taken Doncic #1. Sure he was a great talent in Europe, but nobody would have thought he'd adapt this fast and be this good (personnaly I though he would be a better version of Rubio, after 1-2 years). And Ayton was sold as a "generational center" (which could be true if he grows balls). You don't pass that if you have the #1, or you trade down (difficult to do as it was our first ever).

I have to say I'm affraid of one thing with Ayton : he started playing on the late. And I read somewhere that he didn't like basketball that much.
On the other side Doncic started early, maybe will it affect his longevity?

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by ShelC » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:33 am

If you couldn't tell Luka was a special player during the draft, not sure what to tell ya. I thought he was almost intentionally talked down during the draft with the national/college media hyping its own.

And I honestly can't believe McD would hire Igor and then decide not to take Luka.

Actually...I guess I can believe it.

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Indy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:56 am

ShelC wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:33 am
If you couldn't tell Luka was a special player during the draft, not sure what to tell ya. I thought he was almost intentionally talked down during the draft with the national/college media hyping its own.

And I honestly can't believe McD would hire Igor and then decide not to take Luka.

Actually...I guess I can believe it.
Yeah, say what you will about Igor, but I don't see him as a liar. McD on the other hand, did a lot of double-talk and was called out on it publicly a few times.

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:11 am

I'd be super curious to hear what James Jones wanted to do during that draft. Jones has made some good moves this offseason, but in retrospect I worry that some of them were accidents, such as getting the much better Rubio after stupidly going after Terry Rozier first. Imagine how awful this team would be with Scary Terry jacking up jumpers left and right?

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by rhylek » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:41 am

ShelC wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:33 am
If you couldn't tell Luka was a special player during the draft, not sure what to tell ya. I thought he was almost intentionally talked down during the draft with the national/college media hyping its own.

And I honestly can't believe McD would hire Igor and then decide not to take Luka.

Actually...I guess I can believe it.
Don't misunderstand me (english is not my native language). I was in camp Luka.
When comparing with Rubio, I was talking about his floor.
There were serious concern about his speed, his athleticism and how his game would translate in the NBA.
Would he be the next Zarko or the greatest Euro of all time? (I didn't follow the NBA during the Petrovic days).
And as I am a "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" guy, I could understand those concerns.
Just as I could understand why people would choose Ayton over him. That's what I was talking about (at least trying ;) )

That we hired Kokoskov and didn't draft Luka... well... I'm good at empathy, but I have my limits :lol:

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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by In2ition » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:12 pm

Sarver was enamored with Luka, but he was afraid of the backlash that he was getting about not allowing his GM to do his job.

McDonough and his buddy Connelly were downright giddy about Ayton.

Jones as far as I can tell, has never said which side he was on.
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Re: The Luka Doncic is Great, Woe is Us thread

Post by Pips » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:17 pm

I think that Sarver was for Luka (Kokoškov also but nobody really asked him :lol: ,) and rest was for Ayton, but in reality Suns had no choice, Ayton was safest 1 pick (like someone said he was local kid, Suns never had 1 pick and they had a lot failures in drafting,) and there was no room for anything except drafting him.

Imagine drafting Luka and somehow he didnt play well and in the end blew his knee, Igor was bad coach and Suns end up in flames. And i think McD was in the end fired bcs of that, inability to complete roster and giant mistakes in drafting.

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