Draft

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
Split T
Posts: 13713
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Draft

Post by Split T »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
This draft will probably be inconsequential for our future. FA is more important.
I’d be willing to use the pick to get a win now piece, but I don’t think the pick is inconsequential. In fact I think it could be hugely important for our team in the near future. We are going to get very expensive when our young guys get their extensions. Need to find good, young, cheap talent to balance that. The 29th pick is gonna be under contract for 4 years at something like 15 million total. If we can find someone who can contribute, that could be huge for our salary situation.
Thad Young please

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 13713
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Draft

Post by Split T »

Been doing a quick scan of mock drafts and scouting reports…guys that are initially catching my eye that also might be available…

Tre Mann
Josh Primo
Jared Butler
Chris Duarte
Jaylen Johnson
JT Thor

Anyone have thoughts on these guys?

I watched Butler and Duarte a bit during the tournament and liked what I saw…though it seems Duarte will probably go to high.

Anyone watched the other guys? As maybe you can tell, I’m leaning more towards getting a shot making guard. Feel like we can find one of those that can contribute easier than trying to find a backup big. I’d rather fill that need in free agency.
Thad Young please

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 13286
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Draft

Post by Mori Chu »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:55 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
This draft will probably be inconsequential for our future. FA is more important.
30% of the starters in the NBA Finals this year were 2nd round picks. We shouldn't discount it so quickly. That was exactly what we did in 2004-05 and beyond and it cost us many good players that could have helped prevent the previous 10 years of shitty Suns basketball.
Exactly. The way I think of it is, almost every single draft pick we've ever made, there was somebody good available at that pick. We just have to find him and draft him.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 22687
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Draft

Post by Superbone »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:55 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
This draft will probably be inconsequential for our future. FA is more important.
30% of the starters in the NBA Finals this year were 2nd round picks. We shouldn't discount it so quickly. That was exactly what we did in 2004-05 and beyond and it cost us many good players that could have helped prevent the previous 10 years of shitty Suns basketball.
Are these starters you speak of with their original teams?
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

User avatar
Shabazz
Posts: 5002
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: Draft

Post by Shabazz »

Here are some facts:

We need big man help immediately
Big men take longer to develop
We drafted a big last year and may need to get him some development minutes
Our window to compete is now
Typical expected performance for a 29th pick in their rookie year is low to nil, especially on a contending team

All of this leads me to believe that we won’t look to “solve” the big man need with this pick. In fact, I don’t know that we can solve any immediate need with this pick so all options should be on the table: trade, BPA, etc.
Free Agent Wish List: [Womp Womp]

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14391
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Draft

Post by Indy »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:49 am
Here are some facts:

We need big man help immediately
Big men take longer to develop
We drafted a big last year and may need to get him some development minutes
Our window to compete is now
Typical expected performance for a 29th pick in their rookie year is low to nil, especially on a contending team

All of this leads me to believe that we won’t look to “solve” the big man need with this pick. In fact, I don’t know that we can solve any immediate need with this pick so all options should be on the table: trade, BPA, etc.
Completely agree. Meaning, use it as best you can. Don't ignore it.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 22687
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Draft

Post by Superbone »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:49 am
Here are some facts:

We need big man help immediately
Big men take longer to develop
We drafted a big last year and may need to get him some development minutes
Our window to compete is now
Typical expected performance for a 29th pick in their rookie year is low to nil, especially on a contending team

All of this leads me to believe that we won’t look to “solve” the big man need with this pick. In fact, I don’t know that we can solve any immediate need with this pick so all options should be on the table: trade, BPA, etc.
This.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14391
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Draft

Post by Indy »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:46 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:55 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
This draft will probably be inconsequential for our future. FA is more important.
30% of the starters in the NBA Finals this year were 2nd round picks. We shouldn't discount it so quickly. That was exactly what we did in 2004-05 and beyond and it cost us many good players that could have helped prevent the previous 10 years of shitty Suns basketball.
Are these starters you speak of with their original teams?
1 is, and was runner up Finals MVP (and might have won it if Giannis didn't hit all his FTs and went for 50). 1 was acquired via trade. 1 was acquired via FA.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 13713
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Draft

Post by Split T »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:54 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:46 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:55 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
This draft will probably be inconsequential for our future. FA is more important.
30% of the starters in the NBA Finals this year were 2nd round picks. We shouldn't discount it so quickly. That was exactly what we did in 2004-05 and beyond and it cost us many good players that could have helped prevent the previous 10 years of shitty Suns basketball.
Are these starters you speak of with their original teams?
1 is, and was runner up Finals MVP (and might have won it if Giannis didn't hit all his FTs and went for 50). 1 was acquired via trade. 1 was acquired via FA.
Middleton was actually drafted and played his rookie year with Detroit. Traded with Brandon Knight for Brandon Jennings.
Thad Young please

Folster
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Draft

Post by Folster »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:55 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
This draft will probably be inconsequential for our future. FA is more important.
30% of the starters in the NBA Finals this year were 2nd round picks. We shouldn't discount it so quickly. That was exactly what we did in 2004-05 and beyond and it cost us many good players that could have helped prevent the previous 10 years of shitty Suns basketball.
This is exactly how the Spurs were able to build and maintain their dynasty for over a decade. Drafting and developing late 1st round 2nd round picks like Parker and Ginobli and even using some of those developed players to move up and snag a franchise talent that fell in the draft when they traded George Hill to the Pacers for the rights to draft Leonard. There have been plenty of examples of All NBA talent around the end of lottery from Booker, Giannis, Leonard, and Mitchell. Unlike top picks, those guys at later picks are attainable if you have assets and people who can identify talent.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14391
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Draft

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:03 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:54 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:46 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:55 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
This draft will probably be inconsequential for our future. FA is more important.
30% of the starters in the NBA Finals this year were 2nd round picks. We shouldn't discount it so quickly. That was exactly what we did in 2004-05 and beyond and it cost us many good players that could have helped prevent the previous 10 years of shitty Suns basketball.
Are these starters you speak of with their original teams?
1 is, and was runner up Finals MVP (and might have won it if Giannis didn't hit all his FTs and went for 50). 1 was acquired via trade. 1 was acquired via FA.
Middleton was actually drafted and played his rookie year with Detroit. Traded with Brandon Knight for Brandon Jennings.
I have zero recollection of him there. I just looked him up to go see, and I guess when you play under 20 minutes a game, and only play 1/3 of the games, and play on a sub-30 win team, you are forgettable. Thanks for the catch.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 13713
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Draft

Post by Split T »



I’m quite uninformed this year, but so far this is me
Thad Young please

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 7772
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Draft

Post by In2ition »

We really need an INFORMER appearance, since I trust he's on top of the draft 24/7. I may not always totally agree with his takes on prospects, but there is no denying his knowledge about them.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14391
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Draft

Post by Indy »

In2ition wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:40 pm
We really need an INFORMER appearance, since I trust he's on top of the draft 24/7. I may not always totally agree with his takes on prospects, but there is no denying his knowledge about them.
I hope he is ok. He is typically sporadic in his appearances, but I am not sure he has been gone this long before.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 7772
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Draft

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:49 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:40 pm
We really need an INFORMER appearance, since I trust he's on top of the draft 24/7. I may not always totally agree with his takes on prospects, but there is no denying his knowledge about them.
I hope he is ok. He is typically sporadic in his appearances, but I am not sure he has been gone this long before.
Hopefully, it's because he's on to bigger and better things than phx-suns.net.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Draft

Post by ShelC »

Not sure what we do with our pick and there doesn't seem to be much consensus where guys outside the top 10 will go. Mocks are kind of all over the place and a bunch of teams are jockeying to move up, down or out of the draft apparently.

Generally, some of the guys I like at the end of the 1st and into the 2nd are Sims, Jeremiah Robinson Earl, Jaden Springer, Jared Butler, Sandro Mamukelashvili.

I've convinced myself we're signing McGee, which takes away the need for a backup 5. But we still need a bigger face up 4 that can make plays from the perimeter. JRE is a Villanova guy about 6-9 230 who's great defensively on the switch and do a bit of everyhing offensively. High IQ, well coached at 'Nova. A little Kyle Anderson/Diaw-ish but not an interior defender and not much offensive off the dribble. Mamu is a Senior from Seton Hall who's a legit 6-10 point-foward and would fit in beautifully as a stretch 4/5 off the bench, but doesn't offer much defensively. Sims is in that Jarrett Allen, Varejao, Noah mold IMO but it really depends on who we're planning on targeting in FA and what kind of trajectory Stix is on.

Springer we've had in for a workout and he seems like a solid enough guard, tho not overly athletic. Butler would be a great pick but he's rising on most boards. The back end of the 1st round seems stacked with combo guards, so if we don't think Payne is staying, we should have some options.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Draft

Post by ShelC »

Maybe after 20 years, front offices are learning?


User avatar
Indy
Posts: 14391
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Draft

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:17 am
Maybe after 20 years, front offices are learning?

So funny. I mean I get wanting to swing for the fences. And most 18 year olds drafted in the lottery over the last 20 years have worked out. Maybe not all-NBA level, but better than an average player.


When you commit to 3-4 years at relatively low pay to an 18 year old, no big deal if it fails. But when they are 22 and entering their 2nd contract negotiations that may be 5 years at 20-30M each, that is tough. You have to KNOW they are legit and going to be worth it.

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Draft

Post by ShelC »



6-5 guard, played at Arizona before transferring to St John's and played in Australia last year.

User avatar
Wormwood
Posts: 449
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:30 pm

Re: Draft

Post by Wormwood »


Post Reply