Fallout from the negative "Free Agency" thread drama

[Mori Chu]

I've been talking to the mods this weekend about the icky "Free Agency" thread that devolved into personal attacks and name-calling. They have given me their input, and I have considered the issue myself. The mods aren't in 100% consensus about the issue, but there is definitely concern about that thread and how nasty it got. I don't think any one poster was entirely to blame, but I do feel that one person instigated more of the trouble than the others, and was largely responsible for the general souring of that thread.

Therefore:

SwingMan has been banned from posting in the Suns/NBA area until further notice, effective immediately.

I don't like banning people or silencing their voices. But reading back through that thread again last night, there were just a large number of rude and deeply personal attacks made against other posters by SwingMan. I don't want that kind of conduct on the site. I have received several messages from other posters saying that they were uncomfortable around SwingMan, that his words upset them, or even that they were considering not posting to the site for the time being in order to avoid dealing with him. When one user is making the site unpleasant for other users, that's a problem that needs to be addressed.

Here are some specific quotes from SwingMan in that thread that helped lead me to this decision. This is an incomplete list; there are more in there if you want to go read the whole darn thread. More discussion follows the quotes below.

Carey, you either deleted or edited it - both you & I know it. Missing posts due to your actions doesn't = lack of reading comprehension by the rest of us - don't be a pussy & try to project your fuckup on the rest of us.

Mori and a few others ready to crucify Randolph based on hearsay by a proven fucking racebaiter (AIG), take a good, hard read at AS's piece on the true meaning of tolerance - ...

AmareIsGod wrote:
Swing.. I've been civil with you since Mori opened the new site. Let's try and keep things that way. I haven't called you out or attacked you on here. I appreciate you do the same.

Then shape the fuck up & quit reporting hearsay as fact - otherwise, your lying ass doesn't rate any courtesy from myself or anyone.

After the shit you've pulled, you've got a LOT of fucking gall to ask me for mercy - I'd suggest you clam the fuck up while you're ahead.

You may not be a habitual liar like AIG, but yeah, you're lying about proclaiming you never said "well, he (Randolph) may be the only one who says that, but he spoils the bunch".

Good riddance.

He (carey) can't own up to his own words, so he, instead, wants permission to abuse his moderator powers.

I prefer to think of it as nipping it in the bud - i.e. cutting AIG off before he fully geared up to start trying to pile on, as he's got a history of stirring the shitpot, then tucking tail in hopes another will fight his fight for him.

I'm a Golden Rule guy, but once shit starts getting slung, don't be surprised when I give out with a serving of the same to the ones who slung in the first place.

I find the last quote above to be particularly interesting. The Golden Rule is to treat others the way you would want to be treated. But that's not at all how SwingMan acted here. He lashed out at several other posters without any provocation whatsoever. There may be some history between Swing and the other posters, but that doesn't excuse any of what was said here.

I do want to make it clear that I don't blame SwingMan 100% for what happened. I do think that some other posters were willing to push back at him after he lashed out. It is not okay to hit back just because the other guy throws the first punch; it is especially important for mods to keep their cool when dealing with an agitating poster. I will send private messages to those folks individually to address that issue.

Swing, if you're reading this: I know you'll probably be upset about my decision. I want to make it clear that even though the mods have given me their opinions and advice, that this is 100% my call in the end, so if you're upset, I hope it will be directed at me and not others. And I also want you to know that I really do like you as a friend and I enjoy having you here. You were one of the very first people to come back to this new site and help get it started again. I don't want to do this. It makes me sad and it's hard to write this message. But I feel like this is what I have to do based on what I read, and what others have said, and on my own reactions to it. I hope that in the future we can discuss your return to the site, but I don't want to set an exact date on that for now. And you can still post in the General area if you like.

To those who were saying that they were considering leaving the site, I want to say: Please stay. Carey, AIG, etc., we all really value your presence here and truly want you to remain a part of this community. We love this Suns team and love the group of people we have here discussing them; let's keep it together and keep it growing strong. We need you. Besides, RealGM and AZSportsFans are shitholes, why would you go there??

I was going to "lock" this thread so that there would be no comments. But I decided that I don't want to censor or stifle anybody's voice on the issue. If you have something to say about this topic, please feel free to write it here in this thread and/or send me a PM. If you have something to say, whether it's in agreement with my decision or in defense of SwingMan, please be respectful; I don't want this thread to turn into people piling on SwingMan or more personal attacks.

It's hard to know what is best to do when managing an online community like this one. I just want the site to be a welcoming and friendly place for everybody, where we can talk about our beloved Suns with a bunch of good old friends. Thanks for reading this giant message.

-- Mori / Marty

[ShelC]

Appreciate the work put in on this. I know it couldn't have been an easy decision to make. The decision is the correct one regardless of who the poster is. The integrity of the site needs to be maintained.

[Phoenix219]

Yet all of the times carey's jumped down peoples throats with a variety of f bombs for absolutely no reason (and which INSTIGATED THIS ENTIRE THING) isn't being held to the same standards? That was where the "lashing out" began. So Swing has a colorful way of speaking and doesn't hold his opinions to himself, and thats bad for him, but when other people do it, thats okay? I am going ON THE RECORD for being 1000% against this decision (as I have made clear to Mori.) Mods are *absolutely* held to a higher standard! I'm not sure if I want to be in a place where expressing oneself freely or having your own opinion is now a punishable offense.

For the first time ever, I miss Sose's joint. Even with closed registration, and with the politics threads explosion, this *NEVER HAPPENED*.

This was tame, and this is undeserved overreaction.

I mean no disrespect to anyone personally. Its just how I feel at the moment. This place is still much appreciated.

That being said, I will be posting in the General section exclusively from now on.

[Ring_Wanted]

Don't take it wrong, I love you 219, but

a place where expressing oneself freely or having your own opinion is now a punishable offense.

looks inaccurate to me. I believe that I have freedom. But I know that my freedom, paradoxically, is limited.

For the record, I'd appreciate it if Swing was allowed to post on this thread if this is going to be the place where the issue is discussed as such.

[Phoenix219]

No need to be diplomatic, Ring, I won't take things out of context. I won't disagree, then, I'll just say that I don't take kindly to *limitations* on such.

I second the suggestion that Swing should be allowed his closing arguments, if nothing else. This discussion is his discussion.

I also want to formerly apologize for unintentionally instigating this entire thing with my hyperbolic and apparently inflammatory statements in the push for balance on the Shavlik issue, and my dislike of assumptions in that arena.

[Mori Chu]

No need to be diplomatic, Ring, I won't take things out of context. I won't disagree, then, I'll just say that I don't take kindly to *limitations* on such.

I second the suggestion that Swing should be allowed his closing arguments, if nothing else. This discussion is his discussion.

I also want to formerly apologize for unintentionally instigating this entire thing with my hyperbolic and apparently inflammatory statements in the push for balance on the Shavlik issue, and my dislike of assumptions in that arena.

The forum software doesn't allow selectively permitting a poster to post in one thread but not others. So, at the end of today I'll move this thread to the General area and then folks can continue the discussion there if so desired, including SwingMan. I hope that compromise is okay.

[Phoeknicks]

I have been a part of this site for years. I troll a lot. Post game analysis when my boys hit Atlanta. I miss the love on this site. We all have gotten into it with Swing or some others at least a time or two. We come here to realize our commonality with a team. When we differ let us keep it sports and not personal. In real life when I talk about the Suns I sound like a lunatic. This place lets me feel that my opinions are valid and heard.Thank you for those that are giving us a space to share our passion for the Suns. Maybe I will post more often if I can learn Java faster.

[INFORMER]

Thanks for posting, Phoeknicks.

[Charlie Smithy!]

PK!

I've missed you and all the old guard that's shown in up recently (cap, v9, stevekg, the mooger, etc).

Only one site on the Internet had ever become a lifestyle for me and it's the dot net (in any incarnation).

[Charlie Smithy!]

Thanks for posting, Phoeknicks.

Ahhhh, beaten to the punch!

[Mori Chu]

Hey Phoeknicks, love seeing you posting here on the site!

I keep trying to get "wanggi" to come over from SpursTalk to here, but he never does. He was another dude who posted at the old site. Oh well.

[LazarusLong]

Being a mod is tough and thankless. I did it for a number of years, especially in the early going of .net.

My philosophy was that the site was like a large, amorphous cocktail party. Find a conversation and join in. Have a little fun. This isn't the UN and the fate of the Western World is not at stake; don't get emotional about it ... it only screws up your blood pressure if you do.

[SwingMan]

I love how carey is not held to the same standard - it was only after he lashed out at Aztec Sunsfan that I stepped in. I'd like to share a little PM exchange between carey and I from Saturday after the initial thread was locked :

Subject: SUNS 2014: Free Agency

Until I get a full apology from Swingman for making this whole thing up about me deleting what I wrote I will not post here again.

Fine, leave - just don't be a bitch and blame it on me.

If any apologies are owed, it'd better come from you towards AS for attacking him in the first place.

He still can't fucking read. You on the other hand are just a cock sucker and I have an inbox full of PMs agreeing with me. Asshole.

As for AIG, there's history there that you, Mori, either have overlooked, forgotten about or flat ignored - when some sonofabitch calls my mother a "disease-infested c***", the fuck has forever gone past the point of civility and forgiveness.

There were 2 people concerned in the "offended" department - that's it. Unbelievable that you'd take the side of the instigator (carey), Mori - by protecting him, you're enabling moderator abuse and setting one hell of a slippery precedent, IMO.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Ok, here I go with another essay. I don't like it either, but it is worthy.

I would be among those that are sometimes uncomfortable for the tone Swingman uses to express himself. I agree that on past occasions, he had crossed limits of civility, but this time, HE DIDN’T STARTED. He raise his hand (or keyboard) to defend me and P219 from verbal shots from our very own “moderator”, insults that came from nowhere and were truly out of proportion. Swingman gets the boot and Carey walks away untainted. He throw away the first set of insults, he played a big role into escalating thing, he abused from his moderator powers trying to bully his way in the discussion, he was the ONLY ONE to never show some restraint, neither issued the smallest apology and yet he gets no public consequences from his actions, just perhaps some bogus PM interaction where he can cry away his guilt again.

As I said in my final post in ground zero, in the aftermath, Swingman apologized several times, but Mr Carey left the building without doing any resemblance of autocritic. Later Carey returned for a last post, and what he did? He used his last post to gave another lecture on how to use semantics to get away from your own words, took a last shot on me for not being able to grasp something “so damn basic” and demanded a FULL APOLOGY from a man that already had done so or else he would stop gracing us with his posting. Anyway, what it is a “Full apology”? Swingman on his knees demanding mercy? Several times P219 told Carey that tolerance goes both ways, but maybe I’m not the only reading-challenged man around here.

Mr Carey called me twice retarded on my reading abilities, while nitpicking his responses to my posts, and later played victim of the big bad wolf Swingman. Still, for a man so concerned of how bad “his gayness on me” sounds, he certainly has no problems calling someone “so full of shit his eyes are Brown”. Way to go moderator!!! (I also have brown eyes, so I guess I suffer from the same condition.) For this excellent display of racism alone, he should be revoked from being a moderator.

And to be clear, you can write all day “FUCK YOU AZTEC SUNSFAN” without me blinking an eye, go ahead, start a chorus and raise it. But in a world where all the interaction comes from READING and WRITING, to dismiss somebody’s abilities in such regard, basically render him useless, since anything he express can be killed under this argument. But hey, let’s go with the usual suspect and bury the fact that our own moderators bully people and discourage them to play here.

Still, I could not care any less if this “moderator” lose something from this issue, the real reconsideration I’m asking for is about the banning of Swingman. If he had committed other penalties or even get away with verbal murder, those are not reasons to issue a late call, on a minor penalty. But if there is not such reconsideration, I would ask for notification when the punishment for Swingman is lifted, so I can myself start posting again. He was by my side, without needing to do it, so I TAKE HIS PUNISHMENTE AS MINE.

I’m not blackmailing you Mori, and I don’t want a farewell parade or a “please don’t go” thread, it’s just that as a PRINCIPLE, I cannot let alone a man who stood out his neck for me, and stay around as a bystander. I just hope that there are not first class posters and a “rest of the bunch” division around here. But Mori, your playground, your rules.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I love how carey is not held to the same standard - it was only after he lashed out at Aztec Sunsfan that I stepped in. I'd like to share a little PM exchange between carey and I from Saturday after the initial thread was locked :

Subject: SUNS 2014: Free Agency

Until I get a full apology from Swingman for making this whole thing up about me deleting what I wrote I will not post here again.

Fine, leave - just don't be a bitch and blame it on me.

If any apologies are owed, it'd better come from you towards AS for attacking him in the first place.

He still can't fucking read. You on the other hand are just a cock sucker and I have an inbox full of PMs agreeing with me. Asshole.

As for AIG, there's history there that you, Mori, either have overlooked, forgotten about or flat ignored - when some sonofabitch calls my mother a "disease-infested c***", the fuck has forever gone past the point of civility and forgiveness.

There were 2 people concerned in the "offended" department - that's it. Unbelievable that you'd take the side of the instigator (carey), Mori - by protecting him, you're enabling moderator abuse and setting one hell of a slippery precedent, IMO.

And Carey, you little fuck up weasel, if you start a sentence making a GENERALIZATION (Like you did talking about how "sports is bass ackwards"), then the rest of your sentence must be read it that way, so you can't tell me next to "sports are like this", that "people" only refers to a few. Maybe you missed or selectively jump around this rule

And the word “people” in a vacuum, of course do not account as an absolute total, but it is clearly closer to be a generalization, than it is to "few". And that's why is usual style to add "some people", or "a FEW people", as a way to temper the sentence, or “many people” as a way to emphatize it. But you use it after a generalization, so please don’t get me into my reading skills.

VAMOS A HABLAR EN ESPAÑOL ENTONCES, GRANDISIMO Y RETORCIDO HIJO DE TU REPUTISIMA MADRE, ESTUPIDO PENDEJO QUE SE SIENTE LA GRAN MIERDA ESCONDIDITO DETRAS DE UN PINCHE TECLADO, TE QUISIERA VER DE PASEO EN MÉXICO, ESPAÑA, CENTRO O SUDAMERICA, CON EL CULO EN LA MANO DEL MIEDO DE NO SABER NI QUE CHINGADOS TE ESTAN DICIENDO ESOS HORRIBLES EXTRAÑOS DE OJOS CAFES. POR MUY CHINGÓN QUE TE SIENTAS, TU ESTAS ENCERRADO EN TU PAÍS, MIENTRAS QUE YO PUEDO IR Y VENIR SIN MIEDO A NO PODER COMUNICARME, ASI QUE ADELANTE, ME VALE VERGA QUE SIENTAS QUE YO ESTOY FUERA DE LUGAR INVADIENDO TU PAIS DE OJOS AZULES, PORQUE LA MITAD DE LO QUE DIGO EN INGLÉS NO SE ENTIENDE A LA PERFECCIÓN, PERO ESTOY MUCHO MAS AVANZADO QUE TU EN CUESTION DE COMUNICARME CON LAS PERSONAS, PORQUE LA MITAD QUE SI SE ENTIENDE, ME AYUDARIA A SALIR A SALVO. EN ESTE PEQUEÑO MUNDO DE SUNS.NET, SERAS LA GRAN MIERDA DE MODERADOR, PERO DIME QUE ERES AFUERA POBRE PENDEJO ACOMPLEJADO.

Tell me without a translator, how are your reading skills, you little bitch?

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Excused me the rest of you for the previous display, but as I said to P219, I'm no one to put my other cheek or take the higher road for hypocrits and cowards, letting them get away with this kind of shit.

I'm out.

[Xylus]

As a bystander to all this, I really only have one thought:

This is a Phoenix Suns forum and no one (outside of those involved) gives a shit about these personal beefs. Keep your garbage confined to private messages and stop littering the place with these attacks on one another. If you have a messy history with another poster, ignore that poster. There are no winners here. If you think you came out on top because you out-insulted another member, it's only because you've lowered the ceiling.

Good golly.

[AmareIsGod]

Guys.. I may have over reacted by getting upset by Swing preemptively attacking me in the thread before. I was younger and in a pretty crazy spot in my life with an overwhelmingly high number of things that didn't roll right in my life at the time and let my emotions get the best of me. I lashed out at Swing and said some things on the old .net, several years ago. There were some exchanges between he and I.

Just expressing the issue I had, Swing, I don't know why you decided to start involving me in the conversation when I hadn't addressed or attacked you. I'm very buys these days and life is going fairly well. On top of all of that, I've just grown up quiet a bit. I'd like to publicly apologize for the words I used in the past towards you and let you know that I won't let myself slip to that level again, towards you or anyone here. I don't mind having heated conversations with others from time to time. We all do it. I know I've even gotten all over Informer's case about his eye rolls and perspectives. Since the return of .net, I've avoided levying any attacks your way and don't plan to. I know you feel like you need to "check" me before I revert back to being someone you remember me being before. Just know there's no reason.

I don't think you need to be banned and me bringing attention to the situation by saying I wasn't going to post anymore wasn't the right approach. It put my displeasure in full view and put pressure on others to act. I'm not going to ask for you to apologize either for calling me out, really out of the blue and unsolicited. I want you to know, going forward, that I won't ever let our prior past get in the way of how I'll treat you on the boards. Let bygones be bygones and lets try to keep some semblance or respect towards one another. I think that should apply to all of us. It shouldn't be free reign to simply lob hateful attacks and profanities at one another and just pretend we should all have thick skin and just get over it. Many of us have known each other for a long time on here. Let's just try and maintain some level of respect or at least call out, once cooler heads prevail, that we've over reacted.

That's all I have.

[TOO]

Smh... Pissing matches happens way too often here. All of this is a drag.

[Flagrant Fowl]

As a bystander to all this, I really only have one thought:

This is a Phoenix Suns forum and no one (outside of those involved) gives a shit about these personal beefs. Keep your garbage confined to private messages and stop littering the place with these attacks on one another. If you have a messy history with another poster, ignore that poster. There are no winners here. If you think you came out on top because you out-insulted another member, it's only because you've lowered the ceiling.

Good golly.

+1

Can we lock this and move on already?