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Recently, I got a notification of his Hall of Fame speech being uploaded to youtube. I will throw out the obligatory I never saw him play, but I do know of him is that he was the Lakers defensive specialist on their Showtime teams. I'm guessing he was a prototype 3D guy?

For those that did see him play, are we talking about a Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman type of effect on defense? I ask with those comparisons, because I feel like someone has to be that kind of force on the end of the floor to make the Hall of Fame.

Anyway, I know how much we love talking about the Lakers here, but I couldn't not pretend that my surprise was threadworthy.🥹🥹🥹

Are there any other guys in our sport that made the Hall of Fame whose induction(s) have surprised y'all over the years?

Chauncey Billups lol. This is a wack class.

Whenever Klay Thompson makes it

I know the Basketball Hall of Fame includes a player's college career, which I imagine helped people like Bill walton as well as Grant Hill.

But... I can't imagine the college careers of Chauncey or Michael Cooper really put them over the top either

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:24 pm

I know the Basketball Hall of Fame includes a player's college career, which I imagine helped people like Bill walton as well as Grant Hill.

But... I can't imagine the college careers of Chauncey or Michael Cooper really put them over the top either

Yeah I don't know man, Cooper gets it because he was part of the showtime Lakers which is whatever, but Billups, I just don't get it.

KJ and Starbury were better than Billups. Rondo should make it too.

Might as well put luc longley in too. Geez.

As much as I love Walter Davis, neither he, Cooper, Carter of Billups was ever 1st team All-NBA. And Doug Collins is pretty borderline too. He was a disappointment as a pro player, a good (not great coach) and pretty good announcer. Is that Hall of Fame worthy? Michael Cooper has a grand total of zero All-Star Games. Carter and Billups were really good, but they've really lowered the bar.

I could have seen them voting in Marques Johnson (great college player, briefly great pro) or KJ, but they went a little overboard this year.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:42 am

As much as I love Walter Davis, neither he, Cooper, Carter of Billups was ever 1st team All-NBA. And Doug Collins is pretty borderline too. He was a disappointment as a pro player, a good (not great coach) and pretty good announcer. Is that Hall of Fame worthy? Michael Cooper has a grand total of zero All-Star Games. Carter and Billups were really good, but they've really lowered the bar.

I could have seen them voting in Marques Johnson (great college player, briefly great pro) or KJ, but they went a little overboard this year.

Thanks for your thoughts bob, I was honestly hoping you would chime in.

This brings to mind another question, and that is 1996 in the NBA at 50. A collection of the best of the best, as you know.

Anyways, the little kid that was me knew that Shaq was coming off of a NBA finals appearance and that he probably was going to be a Hall of Famer. But, I was really into basketball, even at that age, and was surprised that Shaq was put in with the 50 best players when he was only 24. Juxtaposed with Dominique Wilkins being left off of that list.

Almost 30 years later, we have the top 75, Shaquille O'Neal and Dominique of course both are most deservedly in, and yet I still remain puzzled by how things went down in 1996.

Would appreciate your (and anyone else's) perspective.

Shaq was anointed early as the next big thing (literally and physically).
He had a knack for showmanship and marketing his image. He understood the importance of media presence straightaway.
And the people whose input make the "Best of" lists sometimes are influenced by things other than pure basketball talent.

And he had the pure basketball talent. He was about as dominant in the paint as they come.

Shaq was a superstar, he made the finals in '95, he was already all-nba second and third team behind other future all-of-famers, he had a videogame (awfull, but still), movies (awfull, but still), albums (awfull, but still). I can understand, even at this stage of his career (and of course after his whole career).

Carter was a dunk-machine, super popular, automatic all-star, he was the face of the raptors for years, all-nba second and third, and olympic gold medalist, I can understand too.

Billups... WHAT? There was so many better PG at the time. He was average for the first half of his carreer, had a good stretch with Detroit then banked on it.

I mean it's called Hall of FAME. If you draft players for your dream team on NBA 2K, I can definitely imagine gamers of my age taking Carter (of course Shaq), but not Billups...

Cooper, I don't know him. Can't say.

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 14, 2024 1:12 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:42 am

As much as I love Walter Davis, neither he, Cooper, Carter of Billups was ever 1st team All-NBA. And Doug Collins is pretty borderline too. He was a disappointment as a pro player, a good (not great coach) and pretty good announcer. Is that Hall of Fame worthy? Michael Cooper has a grand total of zero All-Star Games. Carter and Billups were really good, but they've really lowered the bar.

I could have seen them voting in Marques Johnson (great college player, briefly great pro) or KJ, but they went a little overboard this year.

Thanks for your thoughts bob, I was honestly hoping you would chime in.

This brings to mind another question, and that is 1996 in the NBA at 50. A collection of the best of the best, as you know.

Anyways, the little kid that was me knew that Shaq was coming off of a NBA finals appearance and that he probably was going to be a Hall of Famer. But, I was really into basketball, even at that age, and was surprised that Shaq was put in with the 50 best players when he was only 24. Juxtaposed with Dominique Wilkins being left off of that list.

Almost 30 years later, we have the top 75, Shaquille O'Neal and Dominique of course both are most deservedly in, and yet I still remain puzzled by how things went down in 1996.

Would appreciate your (and anyone else's) perspective.

My problem was that a couple of early stars who had made the Silver Anniversary team - Bob Davies and Joe Fulks - were left off the NBA at 50 team. I would prefer picking great players who win championships (Fulks & Davies) over great ones who never really wining at all (Pete Maravich, Dave Bing, Lenny Wilkens), and my suspicion is that they prefered players who were still living and could be at the ceremony. Maravich was the exception because he was much more recent. Dominique Wilkins was pretty comparable to Bob McAdoo - a great scorer who didn't add a whole lot else (McAdoo did win an MVP award though). Alex English is another example.

I didn't really have any problem with Shaq being picked - it was already obvious he was great. His first four years were proabably better than the best four years of Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld or Robert Parish.

rhylek wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:14 pm

I mean it's called Hall of FAME. If you draft players for your dream team on NBA 2K, I can definitely imagine gamers of my age taking Carter (of course Shaq), but not Billups...

Cooper, I don't know him. Can't say.

Fame is great, but I don't know if I pick someone who wasn't clearly among the best in the league for at least three or four years.

That's kind of where Carter falls short. Tom Chambers is another good example. Marques Johnson and Walter Davis would be borderline because they were probably better than Carter, but for a brief period of time. Billups didn't really move the needle as much as I think a HoF player should, and Michael Cooper was a great defender, but I don't think complimentary players deserve induction, although the precedent has already been made with the old Celtics teams from the 60's.

Me, I would replace some of the more questionable choice with pre-NBA stars like Harry Hough, Jack Inglis, Leroy Edwards. But nobody really gives a shit about pre-NBA players nowadays.

I don't mind Vince Carter in the HoF, given a lot of the other questionable guys there. Vince had the most iconic dunk contest of all time and was an electric player who also managed to stay healthy and play for around 20 years. He didn't win a title but he was extremely popular and memorable and racked up impressive career stats. If guys like Joe Dumars make the HoF, I am fine with Vince being there.

I think we could have a separate argument that the HoF is too watered-down, that it should only include "best player in the league for 1 or more years" type of guys, etc. But that clearly isn't what the Hall is now.

Michael Cooper was a fine role player in his day. He does not belong in the Hall of Fame.

IMO Cooper and Billups are political votes from old guys wanting to make a point about how the NBA was tougher back in the good old days.

Michael cooper last played in the nba 89-90. It took 30 years for him to be worthy of HOF suddenly?

FOH

If Walter Davis isn't HOF worthy, how the heck is Cooper?

I just looked at Michael Cooper’s stats…he only averages 10 points a game twice in his career. What a joke…this is like Derek Fisher getting in the HOF by playing on a bunch of championship teams.

Derek Fisher considered for HOF confirmed.