http://www.cnn.com/
Who's watching?
Yeah, not going to as exciting, because they're actually going to behave like statesmen, and not spoiled, entitled, angry, xenophobic, name-calling, children. Probably not going to have the numbers in viewership because they are the adult party. And I could go on and on like this, but I digress...
Hope there are a few of you out there paying attention.
Feel the Bern!
First Democratic Debate
First Democratic Debate
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
Being such a strong supporter of Sanders, it is difficult for me to be objective in criticizing certain aspects of this debate. I will say a few things.
First, I think it's great that we can have a debate without talking about wedge issues like gay marriage, abortion, and illegal immigrants.
My only criticisms on the debate stage might be that the most adversarial person on the stage has been Clinton, which I think she has to be, and I think Jim Webb has come off a bit as a crybaby for a few moments there trying to get his time on stage.
First, I think it's great that we can have a debate without talking about wedge issues like gay marriage, abortion, and illegal immigrants.
My only criticisms on the debate stage might be that the most adversarial person on the stage has been Clinton, which I think she has to be, and I think Jim Webb has come off a bit as a crybaby for a few moments there trying to get his time on stage.
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
Wow! Nobody? Not one comment, huh?
My opinions are as follows;
Lincoln Chafee might as well drop out now.
I could see a rise in O'Malley and Webb's poll numbers, but not much.
I think Clinton was fair, she did well in some areas and not so great in others. I think when the rubber hits the road though, Bernie Sanders' poll numbers are going to rise in the next few days. People had the opportunity to hear his platform, many who for the first time. I can't help to believe he won't energize people and possibly gain more people willing to support him.
I don't think this was a boring debate, I found it quite interesting, but I don't need a clown car full of wack-jobs to spur my interest in political discussion, so it will be interesting to see the rating numbers once they come out.
My opinions are as follows;
Lincoln Chafee might as well drop out now.
I could see a rise in O'Malley and Webb's poll numbers, but not much.
I think Clinton was fair, she did well in some areas and not so great in others. I think when the rubber hits the road though, Bernie Sanders' poll numbers are going to rise in the next few days. People had the opportunity to hear his platform, many who for the first time. I can't help to believe he won't energize people and possibly gain more people willing to support him.
I don't think this was a boring debate, I found it quite interesting, but I don't need a clown car full of wack-jobs to spur my interest in political discussion, so it will be interesting to see the rating numbers once they come out.
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
http://huff.to/1OvBYYF
More People Are Watching CNN's Livestream Than During The GOP Debate
According to CNN, at 10 p.m. ET Tuesday, 962,000 people were streaming the Democratic debate on CNN's website. That's more than the 921,000 who streamed the Sept. 16 GOP debate.
During both debates, CNN made its live stream available for free on its website to boost viewership.
--Marina Fang
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
The line of the night?
"The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails... Let's talk about the real issues facing America." - Bernie Sanders
"The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails... Let's talk about the real issues facing America." - Bernie Sanders
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... e-sanders/
And there are lots of other great stuff in the article.The candidate breaking through in the Democratic debate? Bernie Sanders.
For the non-Hillary Rodham Clinton, non-Bernie Sanders Democrats participating in the first debate on Tuesday night, there was one goal: Get noticed. A look at the candidates being searched on Google during the debate shows that one candidate managed to do that.
Bernie Sanders.
[ Image ]
Sanders repeatedly saw spikes in Google interest after he spoke. After his intro. After he talked about guns. After basically everything else he said. About an hour after the debate began, Jim Webb attracted some attention after he complained about not having an opportunity to speak. But it was Sanders that drew attention the whole time.
What's more, Sanders actually overpowered the long-term king of Google, Donald Trump. During the debate, Sanders continually attracted more Google interest than Trump.
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
I just watched it. It was a night and day difference between that and the Republican ones. The GOP one was all about who could be more militant than the next guy.
This one was totally different. They respected each other. They talked about the issues like adults. The all seemed intelligent. I had an inside poll going on inside my head before the debate. Hillary was #1 just because she was the front runner and not letting a Republican become President is my #1 priority as an American. Bernie Sanders was #2 because he was the only other person I heard of.
Having seen the debate Hillary lost some points because she comes across as a little too well polished of a politician. I think she cares more about becoming President than she does the issues. She takes whatever stance her audience wants to hear. She is probably the perfect politician at this point. America is sick of politicians. Still, she is better than any Republican for the country.
Sanders won a lot of points and I think he dominated the debate. I fear the word Socialist as does most of America but, he comes across as a man who is truly is passionate about what he believes and knew every subject like he wrote it. I have argued for years here about every other country already having Universal Health Care and how we are stupid for not looking at what other countries have done as examples of what to do and what not to do. Sanders words on just about every subject and especially this one was music to my ears. Republicans would probably start another civil war if he was elected and at the very least vote no on everything he even hinted that he liked. America would truly have to fall in love and vote out Republicans for any chance of his vision of happening.
Chaffee was definitely the weakest link. I would still take him over any Republican on the bill.
O'Malley irritated me a little to start because every issue was about how great he was at dealing with them in his home state. He started to win me over a little bit with his stances, his candor at the end and his speech about how each Democrat in the debate was civil and respected each other unlike some other party. They all sort of had a moment there showing their bond to each other. They didn't make each other swear to support each other or face the wrath of their party, they just did it because they respect each other.
Webb was a little different. Always pissed off about his TV time. The closest candidate to being a Republican with his military background and gun stance. He does have a lot of experience as a politician, so that's either good or bad. I don't fear he would do too much harm as President even though I have as good a chance at becoming President as he does.
Bottom line, Hillary is still up there I'm sure but I think Sanders won over a lot of people tonight. The others will go up in the polls a little just because most people had no idea they were candidates before tonight. I'm sure many didn't watch the debate and still don't know who they are.
I have pretty much lost faith in our political system but, seeing Sanders and Trump rise up in their respective party's shows me that all of America has lost faith in our political system. This election is going to be something else.
This one was totally different. They respected each other. They talked about the issues like adults. The all seemed intelligent. I had an inside poll going on inside my head before the debate. Hillary was #1 just because she was the front runner and not letting a Republican become President is my #1 priority as an American. Bernie Sanders was #2 because he was the only other person I heard of.
Having seen the debate Hillary lost some points because she comes across as a little too well polished of a politician. I think she cares more about becoming President than she does the issues. She takes whatever stance her audience wants to hear. She is probably the perfect politician at this point. America is sick of politicians. Still, she is better than any Republican for the country.
Sanders won a lot of points and I think he dominated the debate. I fear the word Socialist as does most of America but, he comes across as a man who is truly is passionate about what he believes and knew every subject like he wrote it. I have argued for years here about every other country already having Universal Health Care and how we are stupid for not looking at what other countries have done as examples of what to do and what not to do. Sanders words on just about every subject and especially this one was music to my ears. Republicans would probably start another civil war if he was elected and at the very least vote no on everything he even hinted that he liked. America would truly have to fall in love and vote out Republicans for any chance of his vision of happening.
Chaffee was definitely the weakest link. I would still take him over any Republican on the bill.
O'Malley irritated me a little to start because every issue was about how great he was at dealing with them in his home state. He started to win me over a little bit with his stances, his candor at the end and his speech about how each Democrat in the debate was civil and respected each other unlike some other party. They all sort of had a moment there showing their bond to each other. They didn't make each other swear to support each other or face the wrath of their party, they just did it because they respect each other.
Webb was a little different. Always pissed off about his TV time. The closest candidate to being a Republican with his military background and gun stance. He does have a lot of experience as a politician, so that's either good or bad. I don't fear he would do too much harm as President even though I have as good a chance at becoming President as he does.
Bottom line, Hillary is still up there I'm sure but I think Sanders won over a lot of people tonight. The others will go up in the polls a little just because most people had no idea they were candidates before tonight. I'm sure many didn't watch the debate and still don't know who they are.
I have pretty much lost faith in our political system but, seeing Sanders and Trump rise up in their respective party's shows me that all of America has lost faith in our political system. This election is going to be something else.
In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good, you’re not gonna have to vote.
Re: First Democratic Debate
More of the same as far as I'm concerned. The only one who seemed Presidential was Clinton, which sucks. I just think she's a phony, always has been; and it seems like the Clintons always find a way to get around the system, then deny it and then usually own up to it just to make it go away. If Clinton would at least act normal, even if it's nasty, and own it, I'd respect it more and be accepting. And maybe she could at least spin it as us needing a tough, nasty leader to deal with the world's issues. Instead, she's just trying too hard to be engaging and nice, and "one of the people", when clearly she's not.
Finally with Clinton, I don't consider her a politician. She's a lawyer who's been around politics. Yea, she was a state senator and and secretary of state but she's a lawyer at heart. I don't think she can unite or work with the GOP on issues (not that many could) and I think because of the Clinton history, we'll just see more attacks, smear campaigns and lawsuits against her during her presidency which will handcuff everything. The GOP has a hard on for the Clintons and that's not changing.
I forget which comedian said it during the Emmy's but they said Bernie Sanders looks like a guy whose flight just got delayed. That pretty much sums it up. He may be genuine and passionate about the issues but he doesn't seem Presidential. I felt like he was yelling at me through my TV, like your grandfather lecturing everyone about what's wrong with the country during Thanksgiving dinner. And the word socialist is a non-starter for voters.
The other guys were just filler. Hadn't even heard of them before. It's pretty scary that this is the group that we're going to be forced to choose from. And while some may think Bernie or Trump will rise up and be on the ballot, get ready for Bush-Clinton. Trump is still the most intriguing for me simply because he's real and doesn't need money from anyone. At the very least, he's shaking things up.
Finally with Clinton, I don't consider her a politician. She's a lawyer who's been around politics. Yea, she was a state senator and and secretary of state but she's a lawyer at heart. I don't think she can unite or work with the GOP on issues (not that many could) and I think because of the Clinton history, we'll just see more attacks, smear campaigns and lawsuits against her during her presidency which will handcuff everything. The GOP has a hard on for the Clintons and that's not changing.
I forget which comedian said it during the Emmy's but they said Bernie Sanders looks like a guy whose flight just got delayed. That pretty much sums it up. He may be genuine and passionate about the issues but he doesn't seem Presidential. I felt like he was yelling at me through my TV, like your grandfather lecturing everyone about what's wrong with the country during Thanksgiving dinner. And the word socialist is a non-starter for voters.
The other guys were just filler. Hadn't even heard of them before. It's pretty scary that this is the group that we're going to be forced to choose from. And while some may think Bernie or Trump will rise up and be on the ballot, get ready for Bush-Clinton. Trump is still the most intriguing for me simply because he's real and doesn't need money from anyone. At the very least, he's shaking things up.
Re: First Democratic Debate
I thought Hillary killed it.
My main bone of contention with Bernie is that he has no answer to the question: How will you get anything done with a Republican congress? He calls for a revolution. It ain't happening. I worry that his Presidency would turn out to be a huge setback for the left.
If you asked Hillary the same question, she might not answer. But the truth would be, Well, I'd squeeze this guy here, split this group in two, bargain with these people, scare these other people, and get my legislation through. I also trust her much more on foreign policy. So, better President.
I would like to see things get done. That's why I support Hillary. Bernie wants to push bank legislation without any bankers being involved in the drafting. News alert: it won't pass - and it probably won't even be particularly good policy. It's funny that the country seems to be moving from extreme free market worship to something more like a true socialism. Here I find myself in the middle as my friends have slowly drifted from my right to my left. Suddenly, I'm a moderate.
My main bone of contention with Bernie is that he has no answer to the question: How will you get anything done with a Republican congress? He calls for a revolution. It ain't happening. I worry that his Presidency would turn out to be a huge setback for the left.
If you asked Hillary the same question, she might not answer. But the truth would be, Well, I'd squeeze this guy here, split this group in two, bargain with these people, scare these other people, and get my legislation through. I also trust her much more on foreign policy. So, better President.
I would like to see things get done. That's why I support Hillary. Bernie wants to push bank legislation without any bankers being involved in the drafting. News alert: it won't pass - and it probably won't even be particularly good policy. It's funny that the country seems to be moving from extreme free market worship to something more like a true socialism. Here I find myself in the middle as my friends have slowly drifted from my right to my left. Suddenly, I'm a moderate.
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LazarusLong
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Re: First Democratic Debate
I like what Sanders says, but find him a bit idealistic. Like OE, I wonder how he would get things done.
Hillary reminds a little bit of Nixon in that she's a very calculating sort who's very savvy about politics. Her husband is extremely likable, but she was his best political advisor. (Re: Nixon, he was a great politician who let his insecurities and neurosis wreck his career. That part I don't see in Hillary.)
Hillary reminds a little bit of Nixon in that she's a very calculating sort who's very savvy about politics. Her husband is extremely likable, but she was his best political advisor. (Re: Nixon, he was a great politician who let his insecurities and neurosis wreck his career. That part I don't see in Hillary.)
Well, so much for hopes and dreams ...
Re: First Democratic Debate
Bernie has been drawing more crowds to his rallies than anyone else. I know of a lot of people joining activist groups willing to take time out of their schedule to protest, and you know one too... namely me.
That's the thing, no one person can change the course this country is set in. After Citizen's United, big money has seized control of our Government. Face it folks, we the people lost. If you don't start fighting now for our right to be heard, we're never going to win it back. Corporations are people now, and their voices speak the loudest, unless the rest of us wise up and grow in volume.
I think it's pretty obvious what Sanders is saying needs to be done. We need a leader who is willing and able to rally support to engage the radical Right, and we ALL protest like we used to in the old days. If we don't, well, then you are accepting the current trend towards subjugation and Oligarchy, plain and simple.
Sorry to have to wake you up from your slumber, pull you away from your cell phones and video games and favorite sports team's distractions, but them's the facts.
The younger generation, the reddit generation, they're not as fooled by this anti- socialist propaganda as us old codgers. You look around the world and you see that they don't have the built-in fear either. The kids with the enormous college debts, the 2 out of 3 unemployed who can't find a job, they got nothing better to do actually than to protest. We got the numbers if we use them and support them.
So, Sanders actually answered your question as to what he would do. He would lead. He doesn't necessarily have to do it from the White House, either. This is a stage he is using to gain support for rallying people into action. The base of that support is growing in number every day too, and it's only going to get bigger and bigger over the next year. Gonna' be fun! I'm telling you, I'm going to be in the middle of it having a blast the whole way there!
I've been saying for years I wish Bernie would run for President, if only so that the debates would address the real issues for a change. That's what made last night so special. Do you think that anyone would have touched on a 10th of the issues that were discussed last night if Bernie wasn't there, representing the working class? It would have been the same old bullshit. This is a dream come true to me.
Look, we're better off with Bernie as President. This run of his has forced people to address wealth inequality, and that's progress. I don't believe that Hilary will continue to fight the fight that needs to be made though if she is elected, and rallying protesters to fight for a Presidential issue would have more strength than Sanders doing it from a Senatorial seat. Eventually I hope that becomes plain to see from every angle.
Hell's bells man! The odds are turning in our favor, we actually have somebody willing to lead us in the right direction for a change. Why is fucks sake would anyone not want to be a part of that!?! It's like, sometimes I just don't get people...
We are an apathetic country full of douches who deserve the shitty government we get if we just question everything, and we're just too chickenshit to protest against what we know is wrong, and to fight for the change that is badly needed to actually improve this country and the lives of the majority of Americans. Why am I the only one here who is actually excited for even the smallest chance to win the good fight?
That's the thing, no one person can change the course this country is set in. After Citizen's United, big money has seized control of our Government. Face it folks, we the people lost. If you don't start fighting now for our right to be heard, we're never going to win it back. Corporations are people now, and their voices speak the loudest, unless the rest of us wise up and grow in volume.
I think it's pretty obvious what Sanders is saying needs to be done. We need a leader who is willing and able to rally support to engage the radical Right, and we ALL protest like we used to in the old days. If we don't, well, then you are accepting the current trend towards subjugation and Oligarchy, plain and simple.
Sorry to have to wake you up from your slumber, pull you away from your cell phones and video games and favorite sports team's distractions, but them's the facts.
The younger generation, the reddit generation, they're not as fooled by this anti- socialist propaganda as us old codgers. You look around the world and you see that they don't have the built-in fear either. The kids with the enormous college debts, the 2 out of 3 unemployed who can't find a job, they got nothing better to do actually than to protest. We got the numbers if we use them and support them.
So, Sanders actually answered your question as to what he would do. He would lead. He doesn't necessarily have to do it from the White House, either. This is a stage he is using to gain support for rallying people into action. The base of that support is growing in number every day too, and it's only going to get bigger and bigger over the next year. Gonna' be fun! I'm telling you, I'm going to be in the middle of it having a blast the whole way there!
I've been saying for years I wish Bernie would run for President, if only so that the debates would address the real issues for a change. That's what made last night so special. Do you think that anyone would have touched on a 10th of the issues that were discussed last night if Bernie wasn't there, representing the working class? It would have been the same old bullshit. This is a dream come true to me.
Look, we're better off with Bernie as President. This run of his has forced people to address wealth inequality, and that's progress. I don't believe that Hilary will continue to fight the fight that needs to be made though if she is elected, and rallying protesters to fight for a Presidential issue would have more strength than Sanders doing it from a Senatorial seat. Eventually I hope that becomes plain to see from every angle.
Hell's bells man! The odds are turning in our favor, we actually have somebody willing to lead us in the right direction for a change. Why is fucks sake would anyone not want to be a part of that!?! It's like, sometimes I just don't get people...
We are an apathetic country full of douches who deserve the shitty government we get if we just question everything, and we're just too chickenshit to protest against what we know is wrong, and to fight for the change that is badly needed to actually improve this country and the lives of the majority of Americans. Why am I the only one here who is actually excited for even the smallest chance to win the good fight?
Last edited by Ladmo on Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
I consider myself a Moderate and don't like the Socialist title either but, I think Bernie is right. It is broken and we are losing our country to those with enough money to buy elections and politicians. Both sides of the aisle don't trust Washington or the system anymore. The fact that Sanders and Trump are doing as well as they are says something to that effect.
Sanders has noticed that every other industrialized country on Earth already has Universal Health care and thinks it's embarrassing that we are too stupid to even consider looking outside our country to see what other countries have done to tackle that issue. As even Hillary said after Sanders mentioned it, "This is America" as if saying we do things our way no matter what and don't care what anybody else does. We are so stubborn thinking we are so great and everybody else is inferior that we cannot even consider looking at what other countries have done and that is stupid. You have all kinds of test models out there to study and learn from and we refuse to even acknowledge their existence because "We are America". We consider the UK one of our strongest allies and a pillar of freedom from Socialism and Communism and yet their health care system is 100% Socialism. Our military is 100% Socialism. No country can manage to function without some Socialism. Public schools? Isn't that Socialism? Utilities, postal service, police, fire, etc. We already are a Socialistic country to some degree.
As far as the free market and banking, I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but letting bankers make their own rules is like telling a kid to police the cookie jar to make sure nobody takes any. It's true, no Republican will want to work with Bernie on anything but, then again they aren't interested in working with any Democrat on anything from what I have witnessed the past decade anyway. We have total gridlock now.
Hillary looked more Presidential? She definitely has all the political skills to BS her way through everything and flip flop on every issue to suit her needs at the time. In other words same old same old in Washington. I am tired of same old same old and so is America I believe. Her looking Presidential turns me off to her. Bernie looking like the pissed off uncle trying to set things right makes me like him. He is definitely not the same old same old. I don't think he is trying to turn us into China or Russia. I think he is trying to make America better for all Americans and not just the top 1%.
You and him are right, it would take a sort of revolution to make it happen. Not a violent overturning of the government, but a revolution of people turning out to vote for him. Since he and Trump are near the top of the polls I think that is already sending a message that the same old same old is not what America wants.
I was set to vote for Hillary and will probably in the end but, her Presidential performance totally turned me off last night because she came off as just another slick politician to me.
Sanders has noticed that every other industrialized country on Earth already has Universal Health care and thinks it's embarrassing that we are too stupid to even consider looking outside our country to see what other countries have done to tackle that issue. As even Hillary said after Sanders mentioned it, "This is America" as if saying we do things our way no matter what and don't care what anybody else does. We are so stubborn thinking we are so great and everybody else is inferior that we cannot even consider looking at what other countries have done and that is stupid. You have all kinds of test models out there to study and learn from and we refuse to even acknowledge their existence because "We are America". We consider the UK one of our strongest allies and a pillar of freedom from Socialism and Communism and yet their health care system is 100% Socialism. Our military is 100% Socialism. No country can manage to function without some Socialism. Public schools? Isn't that Socialism? Utilities, postal service, police, fire, etc. We already are a Socialistic country to some degree.
As far as the free market and banking, I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but letting bankers make their own rules is like telling a kid to police the cookie jar to make sure nobody takes any. It's true, no Republican will want to work with Bernie on anything but, then again they aren't interested in working with any Democrat on anything from what I have witnessed the past decade anyway. We have total gridlock now.
Hillary looked more Presidential? She definitely has all the political skills to BS her way through everything and flip flop on every issue to suit her needs at the time. In other words same old same old in Washington. I am tired of same old same old and so is America I believe. Her looking Presidential turns me off to her. Bernie looking like the pissed off uncle trying to set things right makes me like him. He is definitely not the same old same old. I don't think he is trying to turn us into China or Russia. I think he is trying to make America better for all Americans and not just the top 1%.
You and him are right, it would take a sort of revolution to make it happen. Not a violent overturning of the government, but a revolution of people turning out to vote for him. Since he and Trump are near the top of the polls I think that is already sending a message that the same old same old is not what America wants.
I was set to vote for Hillary and will probably in the end but, her Presidential performance totally turned me off last night because she came off as just another slick politician to me.
In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good, you’re not gonna have to vote.
Re: First Democratic Debate
That is clearly not an answer.Ladmo wrote:So, Sanders actually answered your question as to what he would do. He would lead.
Look, I like Bernie. I just don't think he has the policy chops. I've heard so many more specifics from Hillary, and her proposals align with my priorities. I am sure she would do a better job.
I do agree that Bernie's run is good for the country. Personally, I think inequality is best addressed by a combination of taxes and spending programs (and Ben Bernanke, ex-Republican, agrees with me). I'm convinced Hillary has a much better chance of making these things happen.
Nixon and LBJ aren't bad comparisons. LBJ passed Medicare and Medicaid. Nixon created the EPA. I won't defend the entirety of their records, but they knew how to get things done. And I think that even with a Republican congress, Hillary would make things happen. She's a flag blowing in the wind, and the wind's blowing left. I think it would work. And she's clearly the candidate most similar to my favorite President since Lincoln - Barack Obama.LazarusLong wrote:Hillary reminds a little bit of Nixon in that she's a very calculating sort who's very savvy about politics.
/r/politics is a whole new world if you click "controversial." Damn, what a shit show. Not exactly a policy-oriented discussion going on there.Ladmo wrote:The younger generation, the reddit generation, they're not as fooled by this anti- socialist propaganda as us old codgers.
Re: First Democratic Debate
You know who is trying to turn us into China or Russia?Nodack wrote:Bernie looking like the pissed off uncle trying to set things right makes me like him. He is definitely not the same old same old. I don't think he is trying to turn us into China or Russia. I think he is trying to make America better for all Americans and not just the top 1%.
http://behinddonttargetrockypointinc.bl ... e-law.html
REP. PAUL RYAN BACKED SOVIET-STYLE LAW TO DECIDE WORKERS’ WAGES
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), the establishment’s great Wisconsin hope for the House Speakership, describes himself as a free-market, small government advocate.
But in 2013, he touted federal legislation which tried to create a national board to fix workers’ wages.
Down to the penny. For ever. Even though new technology could do the job.
“The dairy farmers in western Wisconsin are having a hard time finding anyone to help them produce their products, which are mostly cheese,” Ryan told National Journal in July 2013. “You raise wages too much in certain industries, then you’ll get rid of those industries, and we’ll just have to import,” complained Ryan, the champion of the free-market.
The fix, he decided, was for the government to let farmers and agriculture companies import guest-workers at federally-approved salaries.
“That’s something we’re going to negotiate [In Washington]. Most other countries have a visa system that is wired to feed their economy [with workers],” he said.
When Ryan spoke, eight pro-business Senators had already introduced their “comprehensive immigration reform” bill.
The Senate bill offered farm companies 337,000 multi-year visas for agricultural workers over five years, and set the salary for dairy guest-workers at $11.37 an hour.
Not $11.00 or $12.00, but exactly $11.37.
The dairy workers’ salary would rise, step-by-step, year-by-year, according to a federal formula.
For ever. And ever. Amen, said the agricultural companies.
Without the free-market having any impact salaries even one cent in either direction.
“This is Soviet-style economic planning… One of the most breathtaking examples of central planing the government has ever proposed,” responded Mark Krikorian, the director of the Center for Immigration Studies.
That bill proved so unpopular that not even all the president’s lobbyists and allies could get it over the wall of public protest. The bill’s chief GOP backers were badly hurt — Majority Leader Eric Cantor was ejected by his constituents, and Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL)’s polls rating tanked so far that not even establishment media cheerleading has helped push them back up.
Meanwhile, when Ryan wasn’t looking at farms in his district, the free-market solved the cow-milking problem.
A Dutch company began building cow-milking robots in the United States, and selling them to farmers in his district.
The robots work 24-7-365, which frees farmers — and their kids — from the endless task of milking cows two or three times a day. That high-tech fix will help keep the family farm alive because it allows young people to replace their fathers without giving up their social lives and their children’s’ needs in favor of yet another round of cow milking — or a new Ryan-approved, Soviet-style wage-control regime.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ers-wages/
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
I'll just post this again, since it seems relevant after the previous message.
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
OE32, how great is reddit? That's some entertaining shit!
But damn man, they have really jumped on the Bernie bandwagon, I give 'em credit for that.
I have to disagree with you about Clinton versus Sanders policy chops. I take it you neglected to read the thread I posted about how Sanders Medical platform alone would fund ALL of his platform, and still save at least $5 trillion. I don't see anything like that from any other candidate in the field, including Clinton.
The reason why Obama failed at getting the GOP house to do a goddamn thing was that he was never any real kind of threat. Obama can't go state to state to provide support to challengers in most Senate or Congressional races. The consensus is that he could only damage their reputations by aligning with them. Most candidates want to separate themselves from Obama. What pisses me off most about Obama was that he actually tries to work with the GOP House, and didn't fight back, and thusly couldn't provide support to win House seats. Bernie is different. He has the youth behind him, and Bernie understands the importance their support makes. Bernie is going to make sure that Democrats continue to show up to the polls to make their voices heard, that's a huge part of his entire run here. That can't be discounted.
But damn man, they have really jumped on the Bernie bandwagon, I give 'em credit for that.
I have to disagree with you about Clinton versus Sanders policy chops. I take it you neglected to read the thread I posted about how Sanders Medical platform alone would fund ALL of his platform, and still save at least $5 trillion. I don't see anything like that from any other candidate in the field, including Clinton.
The reason why Obama failed at getting the GOP house to do a goddamn thing was that he was never any real kind of threat. Obama can't go state to state to provide support to challengers in most Senate or Congressional races. The consensus is that he could only damage their reputations by aligning with them. Most candidates want to separate themselves from Obama. What pisses me off most about Obama was that he actually tries to work with the GOP House, and didn't fight back, and thusly couldn't provide support to win House seats. Bernie is different. He has the youth behind him, and Bernie understands the importance their support makes. Bernie is going to make sure that Democrats continue to show up to the polls to make their voices heard, that's a huge part of his entire run here. That can't be discounted.
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
The thing that bums me out about modern politics is, the Republican party seems to have figured out the key to pyrrhic victories when your party owns the Legislative but not the Executive branch. You just gridlock the government and throw a fit and constantly fight the President and investigate them and sue them and veto them and filibuster them and refuse to pass debt ceiling raises and basically just do everything you can to gum up the works. And then nobody really accomplishes much of anything (not you nor the President), and in 4-8 years you can say, "Look at how little this President got done!"
I think it would be extremely dangerous to elect a Republican President this election. We'll be back at war with whatever-Middle-Eastern-country within 1-2 years; they'll appoint a bunch of conservative Supreme Court justices to try to overturn Roe v. Wade; the deficit will soar; they'll try to cripple health care and remove ACA/ObamaCare; on and on. It's all bad for the country. But they'll lower taxes on the rich, hooray! And they won't take away your guns. Yeehaw.
Bernie or Hillary, I'll vote for whichever one comes through the primary. I feel almost 100% sure it'll be Hillary, because the "socialist" thing is a non-starter for Bernie. It doesn't even matter the strength of his convictions or the quality of his ideas. He won't get through the meat grinder if he calls himself the "S" word. And even if he did, I think it'd hurt him badly in the general election. The Republican candidate would skewer him with it and it'd be every third word out of their mouth. He'd be sunk.
I don't love Hillary Clinton's track record; as others have said, she seems insincere and seems to just say or do whatever she thinks will further her political career rather than having deep convictions about anything. But I think she's the best and most likely choice to be our next President.
I think it would be extremely dangerous to elect a Republican President this election. We'll be back at war with whatever-Middle-Eastern-country within 1-2 years; they'll appoint a bunch of conservative Supreme Court justices to try to overturn Roe v. Wade; the deficit will soar; they'll try to cripple health care and remove ACA/ObamaCare; on and on. It's all bad for the country. But they'll lower taxes on the rich, hooray! And they won't take away your guns. Yeehaw.
Bernie or Hillary, I'll vote for whichever one comes through the primary. I feel almost 100% sure it'll be Hillary, because the "socialist" thing is a non-starter for Bernie. It doesn't even matter the strength of his convictions or the quality of his ideas. He won't get through the meat grinder if he calls himself the "S" word. And even if he did, I think it'd hurt him badly in the general election. The Republican candidate would skewer him with it and it'd be every third word out of their mouth. He'd be sunk.
I don't love Hillary Clinton's track record; as others have said, she seems insincere and seems to just say or do whatever she thinks will further her political career rather than having deep convictions about anything. But I think she's the best and most likely choice to be our next President.
Re: First Democratic Debate
Agreed.Ladmo wrote:OE32, how great is reddit? That's some entertaining shit!
You take wrong. I agree about single-payer. But I also don't think it stands a chance in hell of happening. Obama had a supermajority in the Senate and huge majority in the House and still needed to make myriad concessions (including the federal-payer option) to push it through. It probably cost the rest of his Presidency, from a legislative standpoint. And it's making things much better. And yet, just 7 years later, with a GOP house and (if you're lucky) a one-seat majority in Congress, we're going to pass full-blown single player? "Pipe dream" is an understatement.Ladmo wrote: I take it you neglected to read the thread I posted about how Sanders Medical platform alone would fund ALL of his platform, and still save at least $5 trillion.
It seemed to me the entire Obama Presidency was characterized by the GOP successfully smearing President Obama. I think they'd have a much easier time going after Bernie - and I don't think he (or his agenda) would survive the onslaught.Ladmo wrote: Bernie is going to make sure that Democrats continue to show up to the polls to make their voices heard, that's a huge part of his entire run here. That can't be discounted.
... In a Bernie general, the gloves would come off. Suddenly he'd be an old radical atheist communist who is also a divorcee with a child out of wedlock. People who think Hillary would have problems in a general should consider that the gloves have been off with her for about 24 years. For Bernie, they're still on. If the guy were President, the end times talk on the right would amp up to 11. The last thing anyone would be talking about is single-payer healthcare.
Last edited by OE32 on Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: First Democratic Debate
We've been through this before though.The same thing happened to JFK. Kennedy traveled the country at the beginning of his Presidency to rally support for Democrats running for the House and Senate, and it actually worked. They said Kennedy couldn't get elected too, because he was a Catholic, and they said the same things about him being too far Left and accusations of Socialism.
When it comes down to it, the Primaries are going to decide everything. The youth vote and the Latino vote are going to show up at the polls, and there is very strong support for Sanders from both camps. And when that happens, there is a very strong possibility that you might be faced with voting for Bernie or a Republican in the General Election.
What I hope is that everyone is ready to be there if Bernie is elected, because we have to vote out the current obstructionists in the House, and we have to do everything to impress upon the GOP that we are going to follow through if they remain so resistant to doing their jobs. We simply cannot allow Democrats to stay away from the polls again when the time comes to vote the current House out of office.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Bernie's platform, it has EVERYTHING to do with the Democrat's ability to make sure their supporters keep coming out to the polls, and let's face it, it has something to do with the apathy of Democrats as well.
Democrats need to stop being such pussies in regards to how they deal with Republicans. Democrats don't have to as be hateful and divisive as Republicans are, they just have to stop giving up come election time when there isn't a Presidential vote going down. Because when Democrats unite, Democrats win, we all win.
When it comes down to it, the Primaries are going to decide everything. The youth vote and the Latino vote are going to show up at the polls, and there is very strong support for Sanders from both camps. And when that happens, there is a very strong possibility that you might be faced with voting for Bernie or a Republican in the General Election.
What I hope is that everyone is ready to be there if Bernie is elected, because we have to vote out the current obstructionists in the House, and we have to do everything to impress upon the GOP that we are going to follow through if they remain so resistant to doing their jobs. We simply cannot allow Democrats to stay away from the polls again when the time comes to vote the current House out of office.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Bernie's platform, it has EVERYTHING to do with the Democrat's ability to make sure their supporters keep coming out to the polls, and let's face it, it has something to do with the apathy of Democrats as well.
Democrats need to stop being such pussies in regards to how they deal with Republicans. Democrats don't have to as be hateful and divisive as Republicans are, they just have to stop giving up come election time when there isn't a Presidential vote going down. Because when Democrats unite, Democrats win, we all win.
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
Re: First Democratic Debate
You know what I fully expect to happen?
I really believe that Bernie's going to win it all.
Bernie's first day of office, after being sworn in, he's going to hold a press conference and say something like this;
"Do you remember what Republican's in the House said following the election of Barack Obama? They said that their number 1 priority was to make Obama a 1 term President. Not the economy, not jobs, not any of the most important issues. They had a purely partisan goal. And we've seen nothing but obstruction since then. So I am telling you today, our number 1 goal is to see every single obstructionist Republican, who has worked against the welfare of every American since then, removed from office. I will set forth my agenda, Congress can work with me if they're smart, and the American people can decide if they want the single worst Congress in US history to continue to do nothing, if that's what they continue to do, or I personally will work side by side to make sure they are not re-elected. I will spend as much time as is needed to travel around the country to support Democratic opposition to the Republican agenda of obstructionist politics. If it was okay for them to say that their priority was to make Obama a 1 term President, then prioritizing finding representatives who actually want to do their jobs should be just as acceptable, in not even more-so now."
And only Bernie Sanders would have the balls to do that and make it stick.
I really believe that Bernie's going to win it all.
Bernie's first day of office, after being sworn in, he's going to hold a press conference and say something like this;
"Do you remember what Republican's in the House said following the election of Barack Obama? They said that their number 1 priority was to make Obama a 1 term President. Not the economy, not jobs, not any of the most important issues. They had a purely partisan goal. And we've seen nothing but obstruction since then. So I am telling you today, our number 1 goal is to see every single obstructionist Republican, who has worked against the welfare of every American since then, removed from office. I will set forth my agenda, Congress can work with me if they're smart, and the American people can decide if they want the single worst Congress in US history to continue to do nothing, if that's what they continue to do, or I personally will work side by side to make sure they are not re-elected. I will spend as much time as is needed to travel around the country to support Democratic opposition to the Republican agenda of obstructionist politics. If it was okay for them to say that their priority was to make Obama a 1 term President, then prioritizing finding representatives who actually want to do their jobs should be just as acceptable, in not even more-so now."
And only Bernie Sanders would have the balls to do that and make it stick.
Forcing me to conform to your beliefs is an exercise in futility.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.
You deal with you, because you can't stop me from being me.