Terrible trade is a stretch…Payne hasn’t been very good for the last couple years. It was definitely trying to save money, but his skill set isn’t as important anymore. It seems they like Goodwin better…and I still don’t think they are done, so we’ll see who else is on the roster come training camp. Can’t evaluate individual moves in a vacuum.
We save a little money, get a TPE that might prove valuable down the line, and send Cam somewhere he gets to play in a contract year. Seems like a better option than keeping him on the bench waiting for somebody to get hurt.
We’re not going to win a championship with Payne playing major minutes in the playoffs.
We literally almost did exactly that. He even started two major wins for us in the conference finals.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Hard to begrudge Ishbia for saving nearly $30M with this move, but it is a little disappointing. I’ve been down on Payne, but he’s better than nothing.
The thing I don’t like about this is that Payne was basically our last non-Ayton tradeable salary. If we were to move him, I was hoping he’d be combined with Ish and 2nd rounders to bring in a better player and that opportunity is gone now.
I feel a little bit the same. I argued a couple of weeks ago against Payne having much of a defined role on the team, and wasn’t exactly sure really where his minutes were going to come from, but this still seems like a move that could have been made after evaluating the group of guards in training camp or after some early-season games. Pretty much all in on Goodwin as the fourth guard now, so hopefully he’ll be able to play some real minutes without hurting the team.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Terrible trade is a stretch…Payne hasn’t been very good for the last couple years. It was definitely trying to save money, but his skill set isn’t as important anymore. It seems they like Goodwin better…and I still don’t think they are done, so we’ll see who else is on the roster come training camp. Can’t evaluate individual moves in a vacuum.
We save a little money, get a TPE that might prove valuable down the line, and send Cam somewhere he gets to play in a contract year. Seems like a better option than keeping him on the bench waiting for somebody to get hurt.
We’re not going to win a championship with Payne playing major minutes in the playoffs.
We literally almost did exactly that. He even started two major wins for us in the conference finals.
And now we have better players that can step in and do that instead.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Terrible trade is a stretch…Payne hasn’t been very good for the last couple years. It was definitely trying to save money, but his skill set isn’t as important anymore. It seems they like Goodwin better…and I still don’t think they are done, so we’ll see who else is on the roster come training camp. Can’t evaluate individual moves in a vacuum.
We save a little money, get a TPE that might prove valuable down the line, and send Cam somewhere he gets to play in a contract year. Seems like a better option than keeping him on the bench waiting for somebody to get hurt.
We’re not going to win a championship with Payne playing major minutes in the playoffs.
We literally almost did exactly that. He even started two major wins for us in the conference finals.
And now we have better players that can step in and do that instead.
The point was if there’s an injury or multiple injuries, whether or not he can step in and help us win a championship.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:36 pm
by Split T
Yes and now we have Gordon and apparently Goodwin ahead of him on the depth chart.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:14 pm
by pickle
If we are concerned with regular season injuries there’s always two way contracts, no?
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Yes and now we have Gordon and apparently Goodwin ahead of him on the depth chart.
Goodwin is the backup PG. Using Gordon as a PG is not ideal. And if they’re both out, or one of them plus one of the starting guards are out, having Payne available would be great.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Yes and now we have Gordon and apparently Goodwin ahead of him on the depth chart.
Goodwin is the backup PG. Using Gordon as a PG is not ideal. And if they’re both out, or one of them plus one of the starting guards are out, having Payne available would be great.
Ever heard of Devin Booker? What's the deal with folks hunting for a traditional PG? Bradley Beal too. This roster doesn't need a true PG with both of those dudes on the floor.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:23 pm
by Split T
Sure, but now we’re squabbling over a 3rd string pg. We do have Saben Lee on a 2-way still as well. He was pretty comparable to Payne last year.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:29 pm
by TOO
I can't be mad at saving 26m in shipping off a streaky often injured back up G. Shrugs.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:52 pm
by AmareIsGod
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
I don’t understand your logic there, but we’ll see. Not saying it means they will trade him, but I definitely don’t subscribe to the idea that they won’t.
The logic is that If they traded away two point guards that he liked, they're not going to really upset him by trading away his starting center also, that he's pushed hard to keep. Especially when center is the most important position in his system.
And his talking these players up was not just to try to increase their trade value. He genuinely means what he's said. He had breakfast with CP3 right before the trade happened--he was really looking forward to working with him. He met with Cam Payne recently as well.
He pushed hard to keep Ayton, and he successfully convinced the front office to let him coach DA.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 6:30 pm
by JeremyG
It's amazing to me how much some people undervalue Cam Payne. He was literally our leading scorer in our last playoff game--a game in which Kevin Durant and Devin Booker both played.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 6:42 pm
by TOO
Hope we can have a 100 page thread of JerBear telling us how Payne was worth an additional 26m in tax because he had a few good games.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 6:54 pm
by JeremyG
If two of your stated goals as owner are fan experience and winning over money, then yes he was worth the luxury tax payments.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
I don’t understand your logic there, but we’ll see. Not saying it means they will trade him, but I definitely don’t subscribe to the idea that they won’t.
The logic is that If they traded away two point guards that he liked, they're not going to really upset him by trading away his starting center also, that he's pushed hard to keep. Especially when center is the most important position in his system.
And his talking these players up was not just to try to increase their trade value. He genuinely means what he's said. He had breakfast with CP3 right before the trade happened--he was really looking forward to working with him. He met with Cam Payne recently as well.
He pushed hard to keep Ayton, and he successfully convinced the front office to let him coach DA.
Fair, but it could also mean that the front office doesn’t actually care that much about what Vogel says. It also could mean that it’s Vogel’s job to be close to and get excited about the players on his team.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
If two of your stated goals as owner are fan experience and winning over money, then yes he was worth the luxury tax payments.
Payne isn't affecting either of those. A few dances ain't worth 26m. They brought Lee in off the streets and he looked better than Payne last year. And don't give me the Payne game in the playoffs, it was a good game, in a season where he was not good, it doesn't mean anything.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 7:52 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
The handwringing over Cam Payne is weird. He'd have been the 4th guard at best and quite possibly even the 5th behind Goodwin.
He's still an effective player and it's unfortunate that he didn't find much of a rhythm the past two seasons mostly due to injury. It just seems like there wouldn't have been much of an opportunity for him with this team that justifies the $26M tax hit.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:22 pm
by The Bobster
Your 4th or 5th guard isn't worth taking a $26 million hit for. I'm not going to complain about Ishbia saving a little money here when it's possible that they'll be picking up another player somewhere along the line.
As for Bol Bol, he's probably the 12th to 15th man on the roster, so I don't have a problem with them signing him to a minimum contract for a look.