Who would you pick if we (OGW-willing) landed #1?

[Nodack]

So that sounds like they are picking Ayton and Gambo is just selling the fans on him before he is drafted on behalf of the Suns.

[Shabazz]

Anyone read this bullshit yet? http://arizonasports.com/story/1529902/ ... ng-report/

Luka Doncic scouting report
— Dominated at age 18

— Has done things in Europe that no one has done before at his age

— European league not as good as it used to be – competition is weaker. Only about 8-10 good teams now

— Might have reached his peak

— Could struggle in more physical NBA

— Non-athletic

— Talent through the roof

— Tremendously skilled – can shoot, dribble, pass

— Very immature

— Not mentally or emotionally prepared to play in NBA right now​

— Entitled

— Full of himself

— Not liked by teammates

— Is not a point guard at next level … is a wing playmaker who can play the 2-3 but can at times guard 4 different positions

— Should absolutely be in consideration for No. 1 pick because of his overall talent

I suppose it's easy to spit out bullshit disguised as an "anonymous evaluator". But Gambo should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for posting this.

I really do not care about what Gambo says regarding Doncic. Kokoskov knows. So the Suns know. So what Gambo thinks doesn't matter. There can be no information that Gambo can have about Doncic that the Suns do not already have.

Yup. That's one thing that makes me feel good about the situation. Between Doncic playing for Igor and Ayton playing at U of A, the Suns should have more than enough info to make this decision intelligently. Certainly more than us armchair GMs get from watching FrankieVision highlights. Now it's a matter of trusting them to act accordingly.

[jonh]

So that sounds like they are picking Ayton and Gambo is just selling the fans on him before he is drafted on behalf of the Suns.

If its a PR move, why not wait until closer to the actual draft. Most fans will have forgotten about this by then.

[Hermen]

So that sounds like they are picking Ayton and Gambo is just selling the fans on him before he is drafted on behalf of the Suns.

If its a PR move, why not wait until closer to the actual draft. Most fans will have forgotten about this by then.

More can follow.

[Split T]

I didn't make the original statement, I'm just trying to explain it.

Split, that clearly wasn't Gambo's implication. Agreed?

Gambo's or the scout he was quoting?

I think Gambo is pretty clearly all in on Ayton and is willing to say nice things about Doncic, but he's fully on Team Ayton.

The scout didn't do a good job of explaining how he really feels about Doncic. He lumps all his good opinions of Doncic into a couple bullet points and spends a lot of bullet points on his negative attributes. Then finished off by saying he should be under consideration for #1.

I'm not sure what he was implying by saying Doncic may have reached his peak. One guess, and as a disclaimer, I'm not claiming this as my opinion:

Doncic is very advanced from a skills standpoint and it's possible he's put in a ton of work on his handle and shot and passing skills and there isn't as much room for improvement as there is with say a guy like Zhaire Smith. Scouts like to use the term raw talent. Doncic is far from raw, he's very developed and the scout may not see a whole lot of potential growth because it's hard to get better when you're already so advanced at many skills. He sees his lack of upper level athleticism and the assumption is that he's going to come into the league as a really good player, but never advance to an elite player because his skills are maxed out and he doesn't have the elite athleticism to fall back on.

[Split T]

Here's gambo's scouts evaluation of Ayton

– NBA body

– Better than Patrick Ewing and Hakeem Olajuwon were at the same age

– Dominant rebounder

– Great scoring instincts around the rim

– Not a shot blocker

– Handcuffed at Arizona by playing without a true point guard and with another big

– Arizona didn’t know how to use him properly

– Very skilled, very mobile

– Uses both hands extremely well

– Can’t-fail prospect

– Needs better spatial awareness

– Needs to work on moving his feet defensively on switches

[JustWinBaby]

Yeah I guess it would be stupid to build a roster that shares the ball. Those teams just suck. Why would we want to emulate what works? Let's be different. Well we have been different for about 10 years and counting.

All of you are in love with Brad Stevens, well the Celtics share the ball and they do not have a dominant Big, nor do they need one. They do not even have a dominant PG, now that Kyrie is on the mend. They do shoot and make a lot of threes. That is what all of the teams still playing seem to do night in night out.

I really do not like the Houston offense. Far too much one on one for my taste. While they won a lot of games, the ball gets stuck in Harden's and Paul's hands far too much.

If we do draft Ayton, which I expect we will, I hope Igor can develop an offense that moves the ball and can shoot the 3 ball efficiently.

Now you're being ridiculous. Where did I or anybody else say we shouldn't share the ball? Just because you have a dominant big doesn't mean you can't share and move the ball around for the best shot available.

I guess I am stuck with the thought that Ayton put out after the lottery. He thought Booker and him could be the next Shaq and Kobe. I would love the wins but never liked their style of play. Of course Shaq was a bully and it appears as though Ayton has a wider range of skills than Shaq had. I fully expect us to draft Ayton and I think it will be fun to watch.

[AmareIsGod]

How is it that he has talent through the roof, but may have already peaked?

Having talent doesn't necessarily mean it's untapped talent. Doncic is already a really good player at 19, it's possible he doesn't get much better.

It isn't possible. He's a kid still. Doncic will continue to improve beyond 18-19 years old. That's a dumb statement to make, sorry.

Actually, it is not. Many child prodigies max out their abilities at young ages. Many athletes do too. You have to ask yourself how likely it is that his body will mature and change in an advantageous way. Then, are there skills that he will likely improve? Its far from a given one way or the other.

You think he's learned all the nuances for basketball at 19? He will continue to improve and get better with time. The game will continue to slow down for him, he'll get even more crafty with the ball, his shot will continue to improve. Luka is just scratching the surface at his age. He's a baby.

We've been saying the same about Chriss and Bender. When will they make the next big step towards big improvement? When does youth stop getting in the way of progress?

[Superbone]

So that sounds like they are picking Ayton and Gambo is just selling the fans on him before he is drafted on behalf of the Suns.

If its a PR move, why not wait until closer to the actual draft. Most fans will have forgotten about this by then.

More can follow.

Why would you even need a PR move? I think most casual fans are already sold on Ayton anyway.

[Superbone]

Yeah I guess it would be stupid to build a roster that shares the ball. Those teams just suck. Why would we want to emulate what works? Let's be different. Well we have been different for about 10 years and counting.

All of you are in love with Brad Stevens, well the Celtics share the ball and they do not have a dominant Big, nor do they need one. They do not even have a dominant PG, now that Kyrie is on the mend. They do shoot and make a lot of threes. That is what all of the teams still playing seem to do night in night out.

I really do not like the Houston offense. Far too much one on one for my taste. While they won a lot of games, the ball gets stuck in Harden's and Paul's hands far too much.

If we do draft Ayton, which I expect we will, I hope Igor can develop an offense that moves the ball and can shoot the 3 ball efficiently.

Now you're being ridiculous. Where did I or anybody else say we shouldn't share the ball? Just because you have a dominant big doesn't mean you can't share and move the ball around for the best shot available.

I guess I am stuck with the thought that Ayton put out after the lottery. He thought Booker and him could be the next Shaq and Kobe. I would love the wins but never liked their style of play. Of course Shaq was a bully and it appears as though Ayton has a wider range of skills than Shaq had. I fully expect us to draft Ayton and I think it will be fun to watch.

Cool. My hope is that Kokoskov will not tolerate lack of ball movement. I too want to see real basketball strategy and ball movement and good ATO plays and that seems to be our new coach's thing which is why I am excited about him taking over the reins.

[Superbone]

Having talent doesn't necessarily mean it's untapped talent. Doncic is already a really good player at 19, it's possible he doesn't get much better.

It isn't possible. He's a kid still. Doncic will continue to improve beyond 18-19 years old. That's a dumb statement to make, sorry.

Actually, it is not. Many child prodigies max out their abilities at young ages. Many athletes do too. You have to ask yourself how likely it is that his body will mature and change in an advantageous way. Then, are there skills that he will likely improve? Its far from a given one way or the other.

You think he's learned all the nuances for basketball at 19? He will continue to improve and get better with time. The game will continue to slow down for him, he'll get even more crafty with the ball, his shot will continue to improve. Luka is just scratching the surface at his age. He's a baby.

We've been saying the same about Chriss and Bender. When will they make the next big step towards big improvement? When does youth stop getting in the way of progress?

Dude, those days are over. One of my favorite things that coach Kokoskov has been saying is that youth is not an excuse. Boston is showing that to be the case.

[INFORMER]

Eh watching this, Ayton’s defense is actually a lot worse than I imagined

[youtube][/youtube]

His timing is super, super bad. I think many D league players can score on him at will if given the opportunity.

Eh. They put together a video of every bad defensive possession he had, so of course he isn't going to look good. Plus, most of those moments were him guarding perimeter players at the 3-point line. How many centers in the NBA can defend a perimeter player at the 3-point line?

And most of those plays, he stayed with the player. He just took some bad angles, and his challenges were late. I think that can be coached up.

[Flagrant Fowl]

And most of those plays, he stayed with the player. He just took some bad angles, and his challenges were late. I think that can be coached up.

That's what I came away with as well. If we take Ayton, I'm not worried about his defense because the effort is there, he just needs better coaching and more practice.

[Cap]

Luka Doncic scouting report

— Very immature

— Entitled

— Full of himself

— Not liked by teammates

Wow! Sounds like the next Kobe Bryant or LeBron James!

[INFORMER]

You can still move the ball with a dominant big. Ayton is actually a pretty good passer. We don't need to draft Doncic to have ball movement.

ava

Ayton is a solid passer for a center, but I think this team needs more than that. He's not Nikola Jokic (although I think Jontay Porter can be). True, Doncic is not the only who can significantly improve the ball movement for this team, but I don't see anyone else available that can. Kemba or Schroeder isn't going to get it done.

People may call me crazy but I think a lot of what we can get out of Doncic we can get out of Tyreke Evans.

You're crazy. Evans has had a few quality years in his 8 year NBA career and has not been able to stay healthy the last THREE years. I'm not passing on Doncic to place my hopes in Tyreke Evans.

I just feel like saying, the warriors don't have a true center, you must not be able to win with a true center is inaccurate

I agree that you shouldn't make absolute statements like that and that there is more than one way to win. But let's also not act like it is just the Warriors who are playing that way. Boston is going with a power forward at the 5 and occasionally roles out a role player 11th man on the roster to pair with him. Cleveland went with a power forward role player at the 5. Clint Capela is 6'10/240 pick and roll, defensive dynamo, not a burly post player. And so on.

[JustWinBaby]

If any of you Ayton fans watched the game tonight. How would you have used him if you were either coach.

Just asking, because even Capela was a non factor on both ends.

If you are the Rockets, which Warrior player does Ayton guard? Gambo said on todays show that, his presence would force the Warriors to play a center and sit one of their best players. I just don't think that would happen. I think that they would just make the game faster and faster and faster.

[INFORMER]

I think it is going to be very hard for a post up center to make a team match up with him. I think any NBA team would love for a center to set up in the post, hold the ball, back his way down, and shoot 8-12 feet jumpers all game long. That means the team isn't moving the ball and isn't making a bunch of threes. Then, on the other end, the opponent will move the ball so well, have so much speed and athleticism on the floor, that it makes the big man a liability unless he is a defensive dynamo.

[JustWinBaby]

You can still move the ball with a dominant big. Ayton is actually a pretty good passer. We don't need to draft Doncic to have ball movement.

ava

Ayton is a solid passer for a center, but I think this team needs more than that. He's not Nikola Jokic (although I think Jontay Porter can be). True, Doncic is not the only who can significantly improve the ball movement for this team, but I don't see anyone else available that can. Kemba or Schroeder isn't going to get it done.

People may call me crazy but I think a lot of what we can get out of Doncic we can get out of Tyreke Evans.

You're crazy. Evans has had a few quality years in his 8 year NBA career and has not been able to stay healthy the last THREE years. I'm not passing on Doncic to place my hopes in Tyreke Evans.

I just feel like saying, the warriors don't have a true center, you must not be able to win with a true center is inaccurate

I agree that you shouldn't make absolute statements like that and that there is more than one way to win. But let's also not act like it is just the Warriors who are playing that way. Boston is going with a power forward at the 5 and occasionally roles out a role player 11th man on the roster to pair with him. Cleveland went with a power forward role player at the 5. Clint Capela is 6'10/240 pick and roll, defensive dynamo, not a burly post player. And so on.

I agree with you totally. I think we are too enamored with size at this point in the conversation. If we would have had a chance 20 years ago to decide between Ayton and Doncic, it would have been a simple choice and we would have drafted Ayton. In todays NBA, Doncic could be the best choice. There are a lot of centers on NBA rosters today that are complete non factors. The teams that have big active wings dominate.

We have a chance to have this threesome, Doncic - Booker - Jackson, for the next 10 years. We cannot pass up this opportunity.

Find role players to support them like Golden State, Houston, Boston, and Cleveland have done.

[JustWinBaby]

I think it is going to be very hard for a post up center to make a team match up with him. I think any NBA team would love for a center to set up in the post, hold the ball, back his way down, and shoot 8-12 feet jumpers all game long. That means the team isn't moving the ball and isn't making a bunch of threes. Then, on the other end, the opponent will move the ball so well, have so much speed and athleticism on the floor, that it makes the big man a liability unless he is a defensive dynamo.

Amen

The problem is that it is not just MDA teams playing this way. Everyone has gone this direction. San Antonio probably made a huge mistake in signing Aldridge. He scores 2 the other team scores 3. When a coach like Popovich can't make it work, maybe it is the personell choices. Gasol was another useless signing for them IMO. I am not even convinced that the Kobe/Shaq teams could have a chance against the Warriors or Rockets.

INFO - are there any legit defensive - rebounding Bigs we could get later in the draft.

[SDC]

I don't think that's actually a good idea. Why replicate the warriors? We're not going to be able to. I think the way to beat them is to play differently, make them adjust. It's why I think Philly is such a potential nightmare for them. Who on GS defends Embiid? It's why cousins and AD were intriguing.

The concerning thing is that the 6ers died on Embiid post-ups against the Celtics. And if the Celtics handled it, GS would as well. https://twitter.com/zachlowe_nba/status/993161428356956161

you cant make simmons play off the ball. it's 4 on 5 basketball.