2018 NBA Draft Thread

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
JCSunsfan
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:22 am

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by JCSunsfan »

iLLmatic wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:59 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:28 pm
Casey provided his reasoning. He said he's played in the same leagues as Doncic and that the athleticism he lacks will be exposed to a much higher degree in the NBA. That if teams want to run him as a PG, he won't be able to stay with other PG's or easily blow by NBA level athleticism. He also noted that he averaged 20 points a game in college and had a torrid NBA career averaging a blistering 4 points per game. That his lack of athleticism was exposed in the NBA. That's where his comparison of tiers is coming from. He isn't just outright trashing him as a player. He was saying that the athleticism concerns of Doncic are enough to keep him out of the top 3 or 4 in the draft conversations.
I don't think the reason Casey couldn't make it in the NBA was because of his lack of athleticism. I think he didn't pan out in the NBA because the one thing he could do well in college didn't translate to the NBA: Shoot 3's at an accurate clip. Therefore, comparing himself to Luka is invalid.

Luka is a talented basketball player and will find ways to be effective on the court. This has the same feeling with Oden vs Durant. I realize that Ayton doesn't have the injury concerns that Oden had but you always take the better basketball player and I believe Doncic is that player. Our three main weaknesses are passing, shooting 3's, and defense. I believe Luka will address at least two of those issues. This team needs more cohesiveness, it needs someone who's willing and wanting to pass. I'm hoping that Igor is in Ryan's ear about Luka but Gambo confirmed on the radio today that they're taking Ayton.
I marvel at the mental gymnastics on display here. Casey is a smart guy, knows basketball, played in NCAA and both leagues. But you will completely ignore his point. OK.

User avatar
Ring_Wanted
Posts: 5011
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:47 am

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Ring_Wanted »

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:53 am
I see absolutely no reason Ayton cannot be a plus defender switching and in the paint. It's up to him whether or not he wants to be, he's got every tool you could want for a big man, he just needs to do it.
Agreed.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 35807
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Superbone »

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:53 am
I see absolutely no reason Ayton cannot be a plus defender switching and in the paint. It's up to him whether or not he wants to be, he's got every tool you could want for a big man, he just needs to do it.
Yup. Not only does he have the physical tools but I believe the Suns have put the right coach and assistants around to help mold him into an awesome defender and rim protector. Don't forget that Koskoskov was part of the coaching staff that helped make Gobert so effective.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.

"Be Legendary."

User avatar
O_Gardino
Posts: 6734
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by O_Gardino »

Split T wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:27 pm
I don't think it's overblown... I'm not saying he went be able to overcome these obstacles, just that we don't know. It was a fair question for dragic and it's fair for Doncic. Just like rim protection is a fair question for Ayton.
They are absolutely fair concerns.

We have to project all of these guys' ability to do more in the future than what they did in the past. The truth is, most prospects do not reach their potential. Worst case for Doncic is that he's just not a star in the NBA, doesn't adjust, and hurts his team by continuing to try to be the star. I don't think that will happen, but it is possible.

As for his speed with the ball, I'm not worried about him bringing the ball up the court under pressure. He won't get in trouble often, because he will just grab a rebound and go. He won't let the defense set up. When he does have a pesky defender in front of him, he can use his big body and great passing skills to advance the ball. As for his ability to break down the defender and get into the lane, I'm not worried about that either. There might be one team in the NBA that can put 3 defenders on the court who can stay in front of Booker, Jackson, and Doncic. With those 3 guys, you can just attack the weakest defender every time. Get a switch and attack. It's not going to be like the '05-'06 Suns where Nash had to create everything. Teams are going to put their best defender on Booker. Doncic and Jackson can pick apart whoever is left.

TL;DNR: He's got good handles and good body control for his age. If those things continue to improve, he'll be just fine. And he won't have to do it all himself.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Split T »

Jerome Robinson to Washington and Robert Williams to clips has some legs. Absolutely love if that happens. Drops at least two of Sexton/Zhaire/Lonnie/miles/SGA to us. Gives us some options. Just take BPA, or if we really want Okobo/holiday/divincenzo...teams could offer a lot to trade up for Miles/Sexton/Zhaire etc.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Split T »

If Miles Bridges falls, how does he fit here?

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 35807
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Superbone »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:52 am
Jerome Robinson to Washington and Robert Williams to clips has some legs. Absolutely love if that happens. Drops at least two of Sexton/Zhaire/Lonnie/miles/SGA to us. Gives us some options. Just take BPA, or if we really want Okobo/holiday/divincenzo...teams could offer a lot to trade up for Miles/Sexton/Zhaire etc.
In the NBA TV mock draft, DiVincenzo went 15 and we got Miles at 16.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.

"Be Legendary."

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Split T »

I haven't spent a lot of time considering Miles as I thought he would never make it to 16, but he's intriguing. I think he's a 4 in the NBA, but he can defend, he can handle and create a bit, he's a super athlete...

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 3966
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:25 pm

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by SDC »

part of me wants to see sacramento draft doncic so i can do my "doncic = bust" prediction

User avatar
O_Gardino
Posts: 6734
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by O_Gardino »

Sexton/Zhaire/Lonnie/miles/SGA ... Okobo/holiday/divincenzo
Right now, that is a very tempting list of players. But, objectively, probably only 2 of those guys will be NBA players. To give myself a reality check, I looked up this list of all players drafted from 14-18 in history. A few of them were very good. Some of them were ok players. Many many many of them are just not good at all. Guys like Tyler Ennis and Earl Clark are common in that span, and guys like Marcus Morris and TJ Warren are in the upper half.

http://bkref.com/tiny/jlrdT

Trading out of that pick for a vet who can play now seems like a very good option, depending on who the vet is and who is left on the table. We've got about 5 or 6 roster spots to fill, and it would be nice to have a couple filled with steady guys who are going to give reliable minutes.
Last edited by O_Gardino on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

User avatar
O_Gardino
Posts: 6734
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by O_Gardino »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:08 am
I haven't spent a lot of time considering Miles as I thought he would never make it to 16, but he's intriguing. I think he's a 4 in the NBA, but he can defend, he can handle and create a bit, he's a super athlete...
Best case, he's an athletic Dudley.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Split T »

O_Gardino wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:36 am
Split T wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:08 am
I haven't spent a lot of time considering Miles as I thought he would never make it to 16, but he's intriguing. I think he's a 4 in the NBA, but he can defend, he can handle and create a bit, he's a super athlete...
Best case, he's an athletic Dudley.
That's a pretty good player. Dudley is out of shape and not a difference maker anymore, but he was solid. He played good D, he's a smart player, made the right pass, and hit 3's at a high clip. Add elite athleticism to Dudley and he becomes an all-defensive team guy. Add 40% from 3, elite finishing in transition, lobs, backdoor cuts and you've got a borderline all star and solid #3 guy.

User avatar
Wally_West
Posts: 10025
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:12 pm

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Wally_West »

https://twitter.com/nbadraftwass/status/1009464245388500997


User avatar
O_Gardino
Posts: 6734
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by O_Gardino »

Wally_West wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:45 am

https://twitter.com/nbadraftwass/status/1009464245388500997

Seriously old-school draft if 5 big guys go in the top 6 picks.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Split T »

We're trading up for Trae aren't we? Trae/Booker/Jackson/Ayton...gonna be a lot of 130-129 games

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 19339
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:51 am
We're trading up for Trae aren't we? Trae/Booker/Jackson/Ayton...gonna be a lot of 130-129 games
Where we have 129.

User avatar
Wally_West
Posts: 10025
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:12 pm

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Wally_West »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:51 am
We're trading up for Trae aren't we? Trae/Booker/Jackson/Ayton...gonna be a lot of 130-129 games
Who do you think the Suns have the higher chance to trade for, Trae or Kemba?

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Split T »

Wally_West wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:29 am
Split T wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:51 am
We're trading up for Trae aren't we? Trae/Booker/Jackson/Ayton...gonna be a lot of 130-129 games
Who do you think the Suns have the higher chance to trade for, Trae or Kemba?
Kemba is more available. I just don't know how our front office feels about Kemba or Trae. I think we could go get Kemba right now if we put 16 and another piece on the table(maybe Mil pick). Trae would have to fall first as I don't think we can move into the top 7 unless we throw our whole treasure chest of assets at a team. If he falls to 8, we might be able to get there with 16/Mil pick, but I can see Cleveland asking for more.

So I'll say Kemba is more likely.

Online
User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 12896
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by ShelC »

I don't think we're ready to commit big money to Kemba. He's also very ball dominant which could hinder Booker. Trae would come into the league looking to defer but still hit shots.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: 2018 NBA Draft Thread

Post by Split T »

ShelC wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:43 am
I don't think we're ready to commit big money to Kemba. He's also very ball dominant which could hinder Booker. Trae would come into the league looking to defer but still hit shots.
You may be right. I feel like Kemba makes a lot of sense from a few viewpoints:
1. He's a good basketball player
2. He's very available
3. He plays a position we need
4. He's cheap next year
5. Booker wants better players

He's not a great fit for a few of the reasons you mentioned, but he's an easy fit. Maybe I'm not giving McD enough credit though.

Post Reply