Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

[The Bobster]

Good for Spalding - he does some things well, and hopefully he'll stick in the league and develop.

[Mori Chu]

So, to the people saying Bender is a bum because he didn't get offers from other teams: Tell me how my ass taste??

[AmareIsGod]

I would’ve rather had Brogdon or DLo.

Or take them out and just go with someone who’s cap mark is inconsequential like Tyus Jones, Sato, etc.

Instead we did neither. We ate up significant space without making a significant signing

It doesn't really matter though if Brogdon or DLo had no intention at all of considering signing with us. It takes two. Seems like many around here are quick to forget. As if money is all that matters. Clearly it doesn't. You see superstars making max dollars or in line to make max dollars forcing their way out and onto other teams (AD being a perfect example). The upper echelon of players are deciding where they want to play today. We aren't a destination DLo and Brogdon are clamouring for.

[Mori Chu]

It's pretty crazy to think that Dragan Bender could conceivably play minutes in the NBA Finals next season.

[Shabazz]

I would’ve rather had Brogdon or DLo.

Or take them out and just go with someone who’s cap mark is inconsequential like Tyus Jones, Sato, etc.

Instead we did neither. We ate up significant space without making a significant signing

It doesn't really matter though if Brogdon or DLo had no intention at all of considering signing with us. It takes two. Seems like many around here are quick to forget. As if money is all that matters. Clearly it doesn't. You see superstars making max dollars or in line to make max dollars forcing their way out and onto other teams (AD being a perfect example). The upper echelon of players are deciding where they want to play today. We aren't a destination DLo and Brogdon are clamouring for.

Bingo. Salary being equal, there was no way Brogdon was signing here over Indiana. I don't think an extra ~$1M annually would have done the trick either. So you're looking at offering Brogdon nearly $100M over 4 years, plus forfeiting draft picks to sign him. He's good, but he's not that good. And he's got injury concerns. I'm OK with Rubio at his cap figure over Brogdon at what it would have taken.

[specialsauce]

So, to the people saying Bender is a bum because he didn't get offers from other teams: Tell me how my ass taste??

Your ass tastes like you're really stretching.

[specialsauce]

I would’ve rather had Brogdon or DLo.

Or take them out and just go with someone who’s cap mark is inconsequential like Tyus Jones, Sato, etc.

Instead we did neither. We ate up significant space without making a significant signing

It doesn't really matter though if Brogdon or DLo had no intention at all of considering signing with us. It takes two. Seems like many around here are quick to forget. As if money is all that matters. Clearly it doesn't. You see superstars making max dollars or in line to make max dollars forcing their way out and onto other teams (AD being a perfect example). The upper echelon of players are deciding where they want to play today. We aren't a destination DLo and Brogdon are clamouring for.

Okay, before I talk about that, you disregarded the second half of my statement.

If you don't think DLo would have come to Phx had they made him an aggressive offer to come play with his best friend, I think we'll just agree to disagree here.

I hardly think Brogdon went to a FA destination hotspot either. If we showed him the money, he would have come here to play with Book, Oubre, Ayton & Co.

[Indy]

I would’ve rather had Brogdon or DLo.

Or take them out and just go with someone who’s cap mark is inconsequential like Tyus Jones, Sato, etc.

Instead we did neither. We ate up significant space without making a significant signing

It doesn't really matter though if Brogdon or DLo had no intention at all of considering signing with us. It takes two. Seems like many around here are quick to forget. As if money is all that matters. Clearly it doesn't. You see superstars making max dollars or in line to make max dollars forcing their way out and onto other teams (AD being a perfect example). The upper echelon of players are deciding where they want to play today. We aren't a destination DLo and Brogdon are clamouring for.

Okay, before I talk about that, you disregarded the second half of my statement.

If you don't think DLo would have come to Phx had they made him an aggressive offer to come play with his best friend, I think we'll just agree to disagree here.

I hardly think Brogdon went to a FA destination hotspot either. If we showed him the money, he would have come here to play with Book, Oubre, Ayton & Co.

Nobody in their right mind would come play here instead of playing for Golden State. You have proven all-NBA players and a top coach and a great city/market. After it came out that they were signing him, you knew that the Suns had no chance for him.

As for Brogdon, that is who I really wanted. But I have no reason to believe he would want to come to a 19 win team when a good team wanted him.

By the way, when is the last time a team under 20 wins got a big FA that wasn't LeBron going back to Cleveland?

[Phoenix219]

I would have given Bender more of a chance, considering his draft position. The situation of the last couple years is not a very good indicator.

[In2ition]

I would have given Bender more of a chance, considering his draft position. The situation of the last couple years is not a very good indicator.

Yeah, there were somd things they needed to fix in him, but his passivity killed it.

[The Bobster]

Once the draft is over, it's over. It doesn't matter where you picked a player if he hasn't produced. I liked some of the things Bender could do, but he had plenty of time to show more than he did.

[Gladiator]

He'll be fine in Milwaukee. Great situation for him to just be a role player

[Mori Chu]

The way things go for Suns fans, Bender will get a ring before Booker ever tastes the playoffs.

[JeremyG]

I would’ve rather had Brogdon or DLo.

Or take them out and just go with someone who’s cap mark is inconsequential like Tyus Jones, Sato, etc.

Instead we did neither. We ate up significant space without making a significant signing

It doesn't really matter though if Brogdon or DLo had no intention at all of considering signing with us. It takes two. Seems like many around here are quick to forget. As if money is all that matters. Clearly it doesn't. You see superstars making max dollars or in line to make max dollars forcing their way out and onto other teams (AD being a perfect example). The upper echelon of players are deciding where they want to play today. We aren't a destination DLo and Brogdon are clamouring for.

Okay, before I talk about that, you disregarded the second half of my statement.

If you don't think DLo would have come to Phx had they made him an aggressive offer to come play with his best friend, I think we'll just agree to disagree here.

I hardly think Brogdon went to a FA destination hotspot either. If we showed him the money, he would have come here to play with Book, Oubre, Ayton & Co.

Nobody in their right mind would come play here instead of playing for Golden State. You have proven all-NBA players and a top coach and a great city/market. After it came out that they were signing him, you knew that the Suns had no chance for him.

As for Brogdon, that is who I really wanted. But I have no reason to believe he would want to come to a 19 win team when a good team wanted him.

By the way, when is the last time a team under 20 wins got a big FA that wasn't LeBron going back to Cleveland?

That was actually a 33-win team LeBron went back to.

[Hermen]

Nobody in their right mind would come play here instead of playing for Golden State. You have proven all-NBA players and a top coach and a great city/market. After it came out that they were signing him, you knew that the Suns had no chance for him.

As for Brogdon, that is who I really wanted. But I have no reason to believe he would want to come to a 19 win team when a good team wanted him.

By the way, when is the last time a team under 20 wins got a big FA that wasn't LeBron going back to Cleveland?

That was actually a 33-win team LeBron went back to.

With an extra #1 pick and major sentimental value.

[Indy]

Nobody in their right mind would come play here instead of playing for Golden State. You have proven all-NBA players and a top coach and a great city/market. After it came out that they were signing him, you knew that the Suns had no chance for him.

As for Brogdon, that is who I really wanted. But I have no reason to believe he would want to come to a 19 win team when a good team wanted him.

By the way, when is the last time a team under 20 wins got a big FA that wasn't LeBron going back to Cleveland?

That was actually a 33-win team LeBron went back to.

With an extra #1 pick and major sentimental value.

thanks. i was thinking of the year he left, I guess.

[In2ition]

I don't know where to put this, but I was thinking about this last night and I wanted to show just how bad this past year's team was, and how they could greatly improve with a good off-season. This isn't perfect by any means, very simplistic and crude, but I think it may represent it well enough.

I created a grading scale for each position and where the players on the Suns fall in this. We'll even compare them with other teams:
5 = Top 5 at their position
4 = Top 10 at their position
3 = Starter or average for their position
2 = Backup level
1 = 3rd string or GLeague level
(potential level with growth and improvement, imo)
Suns
PG - Canaan = 1(1)
SG - Booker = 4(5)
SF - Ariza = 2(2)
PF - Anderson = 1(1)
C - Ayton = 3(5)
Total = 11 points (14 points)

Bench
PG - Melton = 1(3)
- Okobo = 1(3)
SG - Jackson = 1(3)
SF - Bridges = 2(4)
PF - Warren = 2(should be a SF, 3)
C - Holmes = 2(3)
Total will be average and times by 2, rounded up = 2 x 2 = 4
Team total = 15


Most glaring contrast Warriors
PG - Curry = 5
SG - Thompson = 5
SF - Durant = 5
PF - Green = 4
C - Cousins = 4
Total = 23

Bench
PG - Livingston = 3
SG - Evans = 2
SF - Iguodala = 3
PF - Looney = 3
C - Bogut = 3
Total = 3
Team Total = 29
I got this depth from ESPN depth chart, which could be very bad, imo.


With the right trades and/or FA signings, and the players work hard to improve this next season, that number will go up substantially. I'm being optimistic about the improvement many of them show from this season to next season, but getting stronger should help this team greatly. I also think there is a little bit of an efficiency bump from having a very good pass first pg in Rubio, but I didn't add the scoring bump to anyone.

PG - Rubio = 3
SG - Booker = 4(5)
SF - Oubre = 3(4)
PF - Saric = 3(4)
C - Ayton = 4(5)
Total = 17

PG - Johnson/Jerome = 2(?)
SG - Johnson = 2(?)
SF - Bridges = 3(4)
PF - Kaminsky = 2(3)
C - Baynes = 3
Total = 6
Team total = 23

This team total changed and improved by 8 points, which is pretty good and becomes a competitive team, imo. You combined that with the Warriors losing Durant and possibly Cousins, and they could drop to 25-26.

Do this with each team and see how they fare and how they project next year. Tell me what you think.


PG - Morant/Rose
SG - Booker/Green
SF - Oubre/Bridges
PF - Durant/Clarke
C - Ayton/Holmes



Rubio/T.Johnson/Jerome/Melton/Okobo/Lecque/Harper
Booker/C.Johnson
Oubre/Bridges
Saric/Kaminsky/Diallo
Ayton/Baynes

vs

Canaan/Melton/Okobo
Booker/Daniels
Ariza/Jackson/Bridges
Anderson/Warren/Bender
Ayton/Holmes

[INFORMER]

That's a good question. There are some glaring issues with each pair.

[INFORMER]

Do you guys remember how upset most Suns fans were when they traded Marbury for essentially nothing but cap space, expiring or short contracts and draft picks? The national media panned Jerry and the Suns for that move too.

The trade of TJ was bad asset management, but really was bad timing. We nearly all came to the realization that TJ and Josh weren't long for the Suns. If they would have waited a little bit, they could have gotten a pick instead of trading one with him. It kind of has the feel of 2004.

I don't think the two situations are comparable.

First, I would sat the national media take aside. They were bothered because that they thought we gave up a high level player and didn't get one back in return. But a key aspect to that trade was getting rid of Penny's contract. Penny wasn't a good player anymore and there was no value in having him on the roster.

Second, I don't remember most Suns fans being upset. A lot of people were through with Marbury, and many of us never wanted him to begin with. And we all knew it was going to be hard to rebuild with Penny's contract.

I wish we had traded just Warren for nothing. That wouldn't be great, but it isn't as bad as not getting anything in return AND having to surrender an asset.

[INFORMER]

Personally, I thought the worst thing we could have done on draft night is simply select one of the players projected to go in our range: White, Garland, Hunter, Culver. So I'm pretty pleased we avoided that and filled a starting roster spot instead.

What is wrong with Hunter and Culver?

I just don't think they're worthy of top draft slots. Hunter looks like if Aminu learned to shoot before he entered the league. Don't see anything off the dribble, nor any great defensive statistics. The fact that he went as high as he did is an indictment of this draft. With Culver, I think you have to project a whole lot of development. He just profiles well with his size and general competence with the ball; I don't see anything very special about him from an athleticism or skills perspective. They're the kind of players I'd be more excited about taking with a pick near the back of the lottery in a good draft.

.... And I certainly don't think, given their projected skills and positions, and the skills and positions already covered by other young players on this roster, that we're the right team to develop those guys or to pay them big bucks in 5 years assuming their play justifies it. We can argue about Clarke vs. Cam vs. other prospects 'til we're blue in the face, but trading down? I thought that was clearly the way to go, given the prospects in our range.

I agree the trade was fantastic and the right move to make. I really like Saric, and I felt we could still get a high level talent at 11. The problem is that we weren't looking for a high level talent.

Still, I don't have an issue with Hunter or Culver. I think Hunter is going to be a good 2-way complementary player. I think Culver can be an All-Star.