Impeachment

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:13 pm

Buttigieg and Gabbard just seem to grasp the big picture to me. They come across as having a lot of plain old common sense. No dramatics. Always calm demeanor from both. Seem to grasp what is possible from what is fantasy. Gabbards approach to war I especially respect. She has been interviewed by a few fringe sites and seems to believe in the deep state thing and the media manipulating voters towards certain candidates that align with certain corporate interests. It might be a little coo coo or she might be right. I don't know.

My biggest issues are health care, deficit, jobs of the future, infrastructure, investing in green tech to save the planet, get money out of politics (lobbyists, corporate donations), outlaw assault weapons, tax Americans enough to pay our bills and if you make more, you pay more.

It is a privilege to live in this country. We are all Americans. In times of war all Americans bleed, rich and poor, black and white. If you are a billionaire you can afford to pay a lot more in taxes than the guy working at Burger King and two other jobs trying to survive. We are all supposed to be in this together. I want a President who tries to lift up all Americans, not just the ones in his same tax bracket.

Immigration? It isn't really a real important topic to me. The biggest gripe I hear are from people who say Illegals come here and get free health care that we pay for and that chaps their hide. I can see why that would upset people struggling to pay health care.

Health Care? It's screwed up. Obamcare didn't finish the job and has been neutered anyway. It changed some things for the better but if it isn't mandatory then it fails the same way car insurance fails if it isn't mandatory. Medicare for all? I am for whatever covers all Americans and lowers prices. I really don't have any faith we can make that a reality unless Dems win BIG and control everything. Even then I am not sold that they will be able to lower costs or make it work. Health care is a huge issue and both party's really need to sit down together and come up with a solution that works. Unfortunately I think only one party has any interest in making that happen.

Yes investing in Green tech is an expensive investment and would create new jobs implementing that tech. I get that and I am for it but, that doesn't solve the jobs of the future problem we have. Wang touched on it with his universal salary pitch. The President needs to figure out what those jobs of the future are and make sure our American children and adults are prepared to do those jobs. Even then from my viewpoint there just won't be enough good jobs to go around because humans are being replaced by machines. Wangs idea is a little early for its time. It might not seem so silly in the future.

I know you like Warren and Sanders Marty. Their heart seems to be in the right place. Seeing Warren run around the crowd flailing her arms at an event last week was just weird to watch. Maybe she was trying to appear young and vibrant. It just seemed weird to me. I'm just not 100% sold on her. They both just seem a little bit out there in left field (no pun intended).

I wish the candidates would focus on telling us HOW they plan to make their ideas work. Making promises is easy. Coming through on them is something else.Ask Trump, he made more promises than he could ever hope to keep. Now democrats get to remind America which promises he didn't keep.

Build The Wall: FAIL
Make Mexico pay for it: FAIL
Deport 11 million illegals: FAIL
Resolve DACA: FAIL
Resolve DREAMERS: FAIL
Repeal Obamacare: FAIL
Bigger and better healthcare for all: FAIL
Denuclearize North Korea: FAIL
Big infrastructure plan: FAIL
Reduce US debt: FAIL
Cut trade deficit: FAIL
Revive coal country: FAIL
Renegotiate Iran nuke deal: FAIL
Resolve unfair China trade: FAIL
Israel-Palestine peace deal: FAIL
Repeal replace NAFTA: FAIL
Lock her up: FAIL
Justice for Russian election hacking: FAIL
Justice for Khashoggi murder: FAIL
Reduce hate crime: FAIL
Reduce anti-Semitism: FAIL
Reduce gun violence: FAIL
Fix opioid problem: FAIL
Lower drug prices: FAIL
REAL tax cut for middle America: FAIL
Lift economy long-term: FAIL
Troops out of Afghanistan: FAIL
Troops out of Iraq: FAIL
Troops out of Syria: FAIL
Drain the swamp: FAIL
Work hard/No time to golf: FAIL
Hire only the best/brightest: FAIL
Eliminate government corruption: FAIL
Secure voting: FAIL
Bring back manufacturing: FAIL

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:48 pm

Trump has been pimping his resorts even though he isn’t supposed to. He and his entourage stay at Trump resorts almost exclusively. Pence was just visiting Dublin Ireland and stayed 180 miles away at Trumps resort on the other side of the country and instead just so Trump can make some more money.

Now this...
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... at-1484337
As Politico reported on Friday, Trump has been using the military to pump money into his failing resort at Turnberry in Scotland. In 2017, that property lost $4.5 million. But that number shot up by $3 million in 2018, not because Trump’s course gained a sudden popularity with Scots or international travelers. But because Trump has been having air crews make an unnecessary overnight stay at his property on trips between the U.S. and Kuwait. Those stops are losing millions for the U.S. … but don’t worry. Trump is finding it.

The House Oversight Committee began looking into what’s going on at Turnberry in April, prompted by an incident in which a C-17 military transport jet stopped there overnight both going and coming from Kuwait. The trip to Kuwait, while long, is not necessarily an overnight affair for military planes any more than it is for commercial airliners. The daily nonstop from New York makes the trip to Kuwait City in just over 12 hours. However, it’s not that unusual for planes on this long run to make a stop, especially since these large transports need refueling.

What is telling is that rerouting the plane for a visit to Turnberry meant fueling at nearby Prestwick Airport, which means paying higher commercial fuel rates for planes that would otherwise touch down and top off at U.S. military bases. Crews on overnight stays have rooms available at the bases, or at discount hotels nearby. Previous trips by the same plane included fueling stops at U.S. bases in Germany or Spain … but definitely not in the U.K., which required a significant change in the plane’s course and resulted in higher costs all around.

That plane was not alone. An $11 million fuel bill from Prestwick indicates that a lot of military planes have been stopping by, and a lot of military personnel have been getting ferried a dozen miles away to Trump’s Turnberry resort. But the U.S. has been getting something for its money. In the form of discount rooms and free rounds of golf.


Prestwick airport has been losing money.

Prestwick Airport's government debt rises to £38.4m
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-sc ... s-46730491
The debt owed by Prestwick Airport to the Scottish government has risen in the past year from £30m to £38.4m.
That was while revenue rose through a doubling of funds from refuelling aircraft at the publicly-owned facility. (11 million from US military being diverted there).

Trump needs that airport to stay open because it’s close to his resort. Trump diverted military flights there to prop up the airport and his resort at US tax payers expense. Fuel is much more expensive there compared to US military bases.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-sc ... s-48627212
The airport was taken into public ownership six years ago after it was threatened with closure following heavy losses.

The House oversight committee started investigating this and so far the Pentagon has refused to cooperate.
Last edited by Nodack on Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:26 pm

Another Trump story coming out tonight. Russia invaded the Ukraine and annexed Crimea near the end of Obama’s Presidency. The US responded by enacting sanctions on Russia and kicking them out of the G8. The US decided to give the Ukraine 250 million to help defend themselves from Russia.

What does Trump do? He praises Putin, blames Obama, refuses to enact the sanctions on Russia and has been trying to get Russia back in the G8. Trump directed Rudy Giuliani to press the Ukrainian president to open an investigation of Joe Biden’s son in an effort to hurt Biden. Today we learn that Trump has withheld the $250 million promised to the Ukraine until they agree to open an investigation into Biden, a clear extortion attempt.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... joe-biden/
Some suspect Mr. Trump is once again catering to Mr. Putin, who is dedicated to undermining Ukrainian democracy and independence. But we’re reliably told that the president has a second and more venal agenda: He is attempting to force Mr. Zelensky to intervene in the 2020 U.S. presidential election by launching an investigation of the leading Democratic candidate, Joe Biden. Mr. Trump is not just soliciting Ukraine’s help with his presidential campaign; he is using U.S. military aid the country desperately needs in an attempt to extort it.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:54 am

On the topic of impeachment: House Dems are moving forward with a vote to define an impeachment probe. They seem to be turning the whole thing into an 87-step process, so I don't really know if this means they are actually going to impeach the MFer or what. We shall see.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... mp-1484435

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:58 am

I don’t think they should try. I think it only helps make a martyr out of him. Present all your evidence to the American people and let them decide. An impeachment would take that long and have no chance of getting through the Senate unless Trump declares Republicans in Washingtons and FOX the enemy of the people.

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Superbone
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:18 am

It's a little late in the presidency, isn't it? Just get him out of there and move on.
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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:27 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:58 am
I don’t think they should try. I think it only helps make a martyr out of him. Present all your evidence to the American people and let them decide. An impeachment would take that long and have no chance of getting through the Senate unless Trump declares Republicans in Washingtons and FOX the enemy of the people.
You can't present your evidence to the people without an impeachment inquiry. There is also some legal folks that think without an open impeachment inquiry, many records cannot be released to the House folks doing the investigation.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:48 pm

I don't think they can really gather much evidence or testimony if they don't start an actual impeachment inquiry. They need to call Trump and others to testify and need to subpoena evidence to build the case. They can't do that if they don't move toward impeachment.

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Nodack
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Nodack » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:23 pm

I am ok with an impeachment inquiry. That is different than impeachment proceedings. An inquiry investigates whether there is sufficient evidence to proceed with impeachment proceedings if I’m not mistaken. Of course any of the findings will be called fake news and not sway a single magabilly. Most Dems don’t need the inquiry to make their minds up. The real test is the middle ground voters who are on the fence. Will it sway them?

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Cap
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Cap » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:18 am

Nodack wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:23 pm
The real test is the middle ground voters who are on the fence.
They don’t exist in significant numbers.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:12 am

Cap wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:18 am
Nodack wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:23 pm
The real test is the middle ground voters who are on the fence.
They don’t exist in significant numbers.
I guess in the overall populace it is insignificant, but it only took 77,000 votes out of 125,000,000 to sway the election last time. That is less than 1 tenth of 1%. I think there are at least that many (potential) voters on the fence.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:50 pm

These Trump elections are not typical elections. Trump doesn't win by getting a bunch of undecided 2020 voters, I don't think. He wins by getting his base to turn out in high numbers, by his opposition not turning out (partly by smearing the opponent to make both choices seem undesirable). He wins by voter suppression in some swing states. He wins by targeting key states with divisive ads. He wins if the voters are more afraid of the unknown of the challenger than they are of the known of Trump.

Basically, Trump wins if the voters fear the radical policies of, say, Bernie, or if voters doubt the competency or mental faculties of Biden. I don't think Trump beats Warren. She's #46 IMO.

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Cap
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Cap » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:09 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:50 pm
These Trump elections are not typical elections. Trump doesn't win by getting a bunch of undecided 2020 voters, I don't think. He wins by getting his base to turn out in high numbers, by his opposition not turning out (partly by smearing the opponent to make both choices seem undesirable). He wins by voter suppression in some swing states. He wins by targeting key states with divisive ads. He wins if the voters are more afraid of the unknown of the challenger than they are of the known of Trump.

Basically, Trump wins if the voters fear the radical policies of, say, Bernie, or if voters doubt the competency or mental faculties of Biden. I don't think Trump beats Warren. She's #46 IMO.
Trump just says, “Pocahontas, Pocahontas, Pocahontas,” and somehow that has the desired effect on the idiots. He wins.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:51 am

I think the "Pocahontas" thing won't really stick. Warren has apologized for it, and she's made substantial outreach to Native American groups, who seem to overwhelmingly support her on the issue. If the argument is that she upset Native Americans, they themselves will loudly refute this.

I get that it's a cute insult nickname and all, but I don't think its political power is enough to overcome the difference between the unfitness of Trump and the steady, smart leadership of Warren. She'll be night and day compared to him, and she doesn't have the baggage and dislike that Hillary brought with her in 2016. She's progressive enough to get lots of Dems excited, but not packaged as extremely as Bernie to scare away moderates. I think she'd wipe the floor with him.

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Superbone
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Superbone » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:39 am

Give me a break on the Pocahontas thing. That's like a needle in a haystack compared to Trump's craziness and lies. All Trump has are insults. That is as deep as his intellect goes. He's done. Kaput. No way America votes him in for a second term.
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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:20 pm

The most reliable voting group in this country are old non-college educated white men. And they support him with over 50% (the only group to do so). Considering all of the voter purges going on, and the defiance of Mitch to bring bi-partisan legislation to prevent Russian interference to a vote, I can see a scenario where Trump 'wins' or is close enough where he refuses to admit he lost. And the court may side with him.

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Cap
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Cap » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:21 pm

Superbone wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:39 am
Give me a break on the Pocahontas thing. That's like a needle in a haystack compared to Trump's craziness and lies. All Trump has are insults. That is as deep as his intellect goes. He's done. Kaput. No way America votes him in for a second term.
None of Trump’s insults have ever made sense, yet they somehow work.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm

I think it is unlikely that Trump gets re-elected, short of some kind of unfair / hacked election. I think a lot of folks who stayed home in 2016 will show up in 2020, including a lot of ethnic minorities who dislike Trump, Dems who wanted Bernie or otherwise didn't quite like Hillary, etc. I think Trump has maxed out his base and isn't expanding it. I don't see him reeling in any undecided voters or folks who were on the fence. If anything he's bleeding out support with all the craziness and corruption and meanness. You can't win 50% of the vote if your whole shtick is racism and bullying and insults and bluster. Not if the opposition knows what is at stake and shows up in numbers to vote you out. I think turnout will be very high (relatively for USA) and he'll lose decisively.

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Cap
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Cap » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm
I don't see him reeling in any undecided voters or folks who were on the fence. If anything he's bleeding out support with all the craziness and corruption and meanness. You can't win 50% of the vote if your whole shtick is racism and bullying and insults and bluster.
I heard that s*** in 2016. Didn’t believe it then, don’t believe it now.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Indy
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Re: Impeachment

Post by Indy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:13 am

Cap wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm
I don't see him reeling in any undecided voters or folks who were on the fence. If anything he's bleeding out support with all the craziness and corruption and meanness. You can't win 50% of the vote if your whole shtick is racism and bullying and insults and bluster.
I heard that s*** in 2016. Didn’t believe it then, don’t believe it now.
Agreed. And turnout needs to be really high for minorities for Trump not to win, and that won't happen if Bernie is the nominee.

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